[Ansteorra] Indoor Fighting, was Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 51, Issue 13

Tue Jul 13 13:49:26 PDT 2010

Well at Bordermarch during the rain my mother, 3 year old and 7 year old sons where chased out from beneath a pavallion at the edge of figtning field inti the rain, which is why I would love to see something obviously open to all.  

Irial
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Brandon McDermott <brandonsmcd at yahoo.com> wrote:

Pleas ask. We as a whole love to share. 

Lochlan

--- On Tue, 7/13/10, Michelle <ivarra20 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Michelle <ivarra20 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Indoor Fighting, was Re: Ansteorra Digest, Vol 51, Issue 13
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Date: Tuesday, July 13, 2010, 3:38 PM

I concur that most people in the SCA would not want to be referred to as macho.  A close by society incourages macho behavior with bull fighting, cock fighting, horse tripping, and training their male horses to "dance" by tying them between two poles and whipping their legs sometimes till they bleed.  No wonder tempers flared.  I believe that when posting on a public forum where passions and tradtions run deep is crude and obnoxious.  It's most certainly not going to endeer anyone.  
Personally I would love to see shaded pavillions for fighters but even then they have the right to refuse and fight in a traditional setting.  My thought is set up public pavillions for spectators and misting fans like Warlord had.  As a new comer I have been afraid to even ask for shade under a pavallion because I am concerned it would be seen as rude.

Irial  
Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 13, 2010, at 3:15 PM, Ysabeau <ysabeau.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure it was a typo or not, but I believe the full and correct quote
from Wikipedia is:
*Machismo* is prominently exhibited or excessive
masculinity<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity>
.[1] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-0> As an attitude,
machismo ranges from a personal sense of virility to a more extreme male
chauvinism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chauvinism>. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo)
Followed by:
The English word "machismo" originates in an identical
Spanish<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_language>and
Portuguese <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_language> word, which
however has a somewhat different meaning. Spanish and Portuguese
*machismo*refers exclusively to the belief in the superiority of males
over females,
that is it means "sexism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexism>" or "male
chauvinism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_chauvinism>" (along with the
Spanish and Portuguese adjective *machista*, "sexist" or "male chauvinist").
[5] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-4> *Machismo* itself
derives from Spanish and Portuguese *macho*, coming from the Latin masculus
"male [animal]" or, when used metaphorically,
"masculine<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculine>"
or "very masculine."[6] <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machismo#cite_note-5>

*In the Urban Dictionary*:
Spanish word. I don't think there's a direct english word translation. 1.
Having an unusually high or exaggerated sense of masculinity. Including an
attitude that aggression, strength, sexual prowess, power and control is the
measure of someone's manliness. Also, a machismo man feels having these
traits entitles him to respect and obedience from men and women around him.
2. The belief in the right to dominate and control, including, but not
limited to, control over women.

*In Visual Thesaurus* - Exaggerated masculinity; the trait of behaving in
ways considered typical of men.

*Websters* - *1* *:* a strong sense of masculine pride *:* an exaggerated
masculinity
*2* *:* an exaggerated or exhilarating sense of power or strength

And while none of these specifically refer to bullying, domination, and
pointless aggression, those are the typical ways that machismo or male
chauvinism is expressed in many cultures around the world because that is
the way a macho man demands respect and obedience from those around him. It
isn't a flattering term unless you are from a culture where this type of
behavior is expected from men. Last time I checked, it isn't expected of the
men (or women) in the SCA.

Just saying,
Ysabeau
(who also collects quotes and thinks "Never pick a fight with someone who
buys ink by the barrel" is pretty apt for this entire conversation)

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 2:52 PM, Richard Threlkeld <
rjt at softwareinnovation.com> wrote:

2) Macho: Means characterized or driven by Machismo.  Machismo is a
degenerate honor code.  It emphasizes swagger, bullying, domination of
women, and pointless aggression.  We shoot for chivalry in the Society.
There is a gross difference, and "machismo" or "macho" is an insult.
Perhaps out of ignorance, but an insult none the less.

Lord Ioannes Dalassenos
the increasingly impatient

A quick look online yields the following.

Macho
The property of being overtly masculine, from the Spanish word Machismo

Machismo
Machismo is a prominently exhibited or excessive masculinity.[1] As an
attitude, machismo ranges from a personal sense of virility to a more
extreme masculism. In many cultures, machismo is acceptable and even
expected.

I would find either of these not an insult. It does not mention bullying,
domination, and pointless aggression.  Your definitions of Chivalry and
courtesy are based on your strawman scenarios. I suggest Macho, machismo,
chivalry, and courtesy are much deeper than your characterizations imply.
Choose your champion..... :-)

Caelin

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