[Ansteorra] Nitpicking Angry Folks (WAS: Indoor Fighting)

[Mike Gideon]

And then there are of course those people that would argue with a stone wall, 
and REALLY enjoy it.

Michel





________________________________
From: SoldierGrrrl <soldier.grrrl at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 6:27:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Nitpicking Angry Folks (WAS: Indoor Fighting)

On Tue, Jul 13, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I think it's pretty crazy that people are picking apart the etymology of a 
>single word in order to make it seem like I was using the most negative 
>definition in order to insult people. I'm fairly sure that if I wanted to insult 
>someone, I could do so in a way that wouldn't leave any questions about my 
>intent. :P

That's because, when tone, inflection and body language are missing,
the meaning of the words you use has a greater meaning.  Welcome to
the Internet.  If you don't mean to use a word that has negative
connotations, then don't use it.  If I use the word "gimp" to refer to
a paraplegic friend of mine, someone who is disabled has every right
to call me on the usage, and I don't get to say "oh, well, I didn't
*mean* to be offensive!"  Even if Carol uses the word in reference to
herself.

I can call myself crazy, and I may not mind if someone else does, but
I don't get to tell people who do find the phrase crazy to be
offensive when dealing with those of us with PTSD, depression, etc,
offensive.  Sorry.

> Some are you are fairly angry (and some of you got that way QUICK) and,
> if you are, I suggest that you remove yourself from the thread. Remember, the 
>SCA is about fun, and it's not very fun if your head explodes. Plus, it's messy.

Nope.  It doesn't work that way.  You don't get to "suggest" we shut
up and go away after the kerfuffle has started.  Sorry.

You don't get to say "well, if you're mad, you should just step away."
Not even after you give a condescending little pat on the head.
Sorry.

> I've seen the Urban Dictionary 'definition' and that's absolutely not what I 
>meant. I can see how there can be some confusion between definitions, so why not 
>ask me, instead of looking for the worst definition? Next, that definition 
>doesn't even makes sense in this context, unless someone really
> thinks that I think that fighting in the worst heat is a trait of a man who
> wants to dominate and control women.

No, but it's part and parcel of a societal definition of "macho."
Again, if it's not what you meant, why did you use the word?  Why did
you not find a more precise way to express yourself, rather than use
an imprecise word and then wonder why some folx took issue with it?
Especially for those on the list who had grown up on the wrong side of
communities where "machismo" was a way of life?  I know that there are
those out there that, when they are called "macho", will actually walk
away from the person because of experiences in their past...  They
want nothing to do with being considered "macho" because of those
experiences.

> No, when I used the word
> 'macho' , I was attempting to describe our fighters, who enjoy
> prominently exhibiting their masculinity and prowess, even when it
> isn't very smart to do so. Is that the nicest thing that I can say
> about someone? Nope. But my part of this conversation wasn't about praising
> people, it was about addressing a problem. Problems are usually
> negative things, and sometimes require descriptive words with negative
> connotations. I stand by that description.

Wow, if that's the description you wanted to give, then that's what
you should have written.  Again, words have meaning, especially in
written form when nonverbal cues are lost.  If you choose to use a
word KNOWING it has negative connotations, then why are you surprised
when people react negatively to it?

> I'm sorry if my words were misunderstood, or if anyone is insulted by the 
>actual intent of my words (and not what other people assume is my intent). I'll 
>try to be more careful with descriptives if y'all promise to start asking people 
>what they mean instead of assuming that they mean something bad. Especially in 
>writing, where there's no tone.

Then perhaps you should also consider that using inflammatory words,
especially in the course of  nitpicking at people for their "macho
bone going 'ting'," might not be the best idea.  Also, as a woman, I
dislike being called macho.  I'm not.  I'm strong, confident, smart
and probably bitchy, but not macho.  So, I'll take offense at the word
being applied to me, other female fighters may or may not.  It's up to
*them* to decide if they find insult in the word, not me, and not you.

> About titles: I find it pretty presumptuous to assume that people should visit 
>an entirely different website just to find out my name. When this is paired with 
>the fact that some people, from Dukes to Ladies, prefer to be called by their 
>name, and /not/ by their titles, it does make more sense to call people by the 
>name that they list. In Robin of Gilwell's case, he simply signed 'Robin of 
>Gilwell', just as Lord Ioannes signed his name as 'Lord Ioannes'.

Titles are a recognition of who and what we are in the Society.  It's
a way of identifying those folx who have been recognized for their
contribution, as you were recognized when you were awarded your AoA.
Peerage means a group of people who uphold the ideals of the Society
have seen peer-like qualities in an individual.  In Master Robin's
case, he is also a Lion of Ansteorra, which means rather a lot and
gives his words a great deal of weight.  To give you some idea, Lions
may enter Court unbidden and unasked and may speak freely.   That
should give you an idea of the prestige of those who are Lions.  Robin
is also a great storyteller, and holds so many memories of the
beginnings of our kingdom in his head that he's quite fascinating to
talk to.

> Last, I haven't insulted Don Robin's wife, although both he and his wife have 
>insulted me many times. Even if I had insulted them, I'm pretty sure the 
>chivalric response to an insult wouldn't involve 'punching someone in the face'. 
>Anyway, my point is that I haven't intentionally insulted them, and they have 
>intentionally insulted me. It sucks. Move on. I don't see that it involves 
>anyone else, anyway, and I prefer not to hold grudges. (That whole explode-y 
>head thing.)

Robin's wife has not insulted you.  She has not commented at all.  The
wife Ioannes mentioned you insulting?  That would be me, which is why
he used the phrase "my wife."  The feminine of Dalassnos is Dalassene.
They're rather related, although I'm not sure who's familiar enough
with Greek surnames to really catch that.  And I didn't ask him to
take offense on my behalf, but he has.

In any case, I'm done responding to you, in specific, about this
topic.  You may consider this a victory if you wish.

For those gentles on the list whom I may have insulted unknowingly, my
apologies.

Helene Dalassene
Hellsgate
-- 
I've asked forgiveness from the Lord, now take my soul, and bring my sword.
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