[Ansteorra] Cutoff dates (was: Why aren't we doing this?)

Chris Zakes dontivar at gmail.com
Fri Nov 5 18:58:10 PDT 2010

At 09:50 PM 11/4/2010, Ritter Dieterich wrote:

>Tivar and Liam and others were talking cutoff dates...
>1600 is such an arbitrary date.

<shrug> *Any* date is going to be arbitrary for most people. Despite 
your list of examples, there was no single date where everything in 
Europe made a sudden, radical change.

>As much as it might fly in the face of what
>we do, I strongly believe the early and mid 1600s should be fair game; how
>many of us joined the SCA chasing visions of our favorite films and how many
>of those visions included Michael York, Richard Chamberlain, Frank Finlay,
>and Oliver Reed?  Our *entire* duelling culture in Ansteorra, contrary to
>those who like to look smart these days by quoting early fencing masters, is
>NOT anchored to George Silver but rather to Alexandre Dumas by way of George
>MacDonald Frasier.  I ask you which is more fun to think about: Morozzo's
>Progression of Defense or defending the honor of a chilly Raquel Welch in a
>sheer shift?  Nuff said.

Granted. And many of us joined because we'd read "Lord of the Rings" 
or "Nine Princes in Amber" or the Narnia stories or "Glory Road" or 
the Conan stories or a dozen other fantasies, and wanted to do it for 
real. But even though the First Tournament included Benjy the Hobbit 
and Queen Lucy of Narnia, and even though the College of Heralds once 
said Tolkien Elvish was an acceptable language for names, we don't do 
fantasy of that sort any more. We really have evolved into a more 
historical organization.

And, FWIW, I'd say these days Ansteorran rapier combat has a lot more 
to do with DiGrassi than Dumas. (Silver? Dont be silly. George Silver 
hated rapiers.) Except for some people's clothes, the only element of 
the 1973 "Three Musketeers" movie that's still around is the way many 
people fight rapier and cloak.

         -Tivar Moondragon

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