[Ansteorra] Questions regarding slings & Tavern Fights

Fri Jul 29 01:40:47 PDT 2011

greetings

one possible use you didn't mention for a battle field slinger , was that of 
distraction.
a small stone wont kill you , but it will distract you when your trying to 
keep that other guys bloody sword out of your body , and catch a fighter or 
a horse in an unprotected spot , and see who stands still , and who jumps 
around cussing , or kicking .
just a thought ; )
Be Safe , Be Happy, Have Fun .
Arthur
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stefan li Rous" <StefanliRous at austin.rr.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: "Sher M" <runa.herd at earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Questions regarding slings & Tavern Fights


>>> How does one determine what is a SCA Tavern Fight Legal Weapon?
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by SCA Tavern Fight Legal Weapon. This is 
> probably something okay'ed for a specific event.
>
> Are you speaking of what I call SPDs (Silly Parrying Devices)? Often  used 
> in special rapier scenarios? I think these may be restricted to  being 
> defensive only weapons. But again ratan(?) daggers that are  similar, used 
> to be allowed in SCA rapier as secondary weapons but are  now not allowed 
> while flexi-daggers are now allowed. Maybe someone  from the rapier 
> community can add to this or tell where I am wrong.
> SPD-msg (14K) 12/ 6/95 Silly Parrying Devices for SCA rapier combat
>
> http://www.florilegium.org/files/COMBAT-RAPIER/SPD-msg.html
>
> I'm assuming that you aren't talking about using slings in tavern type 
> fights. I definitely would say that there isn't enough room in any 
> tavern, period or SCA, to be able to actually use a sling effectively, 
> except perhaps as a garrote. :-)
>
> As to using an approved sling on the battlefield, just because  something 
> is "illegal" currently doesn't mean you can't get the rule  changed. 
> However, expect a long, drawn out fight against embedded  interest groups.
>
> Prove that the weapon is "safe", and that meaning seems to be getting 
> more and more restrictive as time goes by, and get people interested  in 
> using it and maybe the rule will be changed. I'm unaware of any  specific 
> incidents that may have caused slings to have been disallowed.
>
> Jousting from horseback used to be illegal in the SCA, but recently  some 
> folks in this kingdom did the research and provided sufficient  evidence 
> that  foam core lances could be used. They are working now on  doing the 
> same for balsa-cored lances. By the way, if the people  involved in this 
> effort would identify themselves and/or connect with  me, I'd love to have 
> some how-to/history article of these SCA-legal  lances for the 
> Florilegium.
>
> Slings do take a fair amount of practice to use accurately and safely. 
> Much more that say using a combat crossbow, both of which I've used.
>
> I suspect that just using regular tennis balls would work just fine  from 
> a safety standpoint. They tend to be stacked in four-ball pyramid  shapes 
> for siege weapon ammunition, but that is to simulate much  bigger rocks.
>
> I'm not sure just how lethal a combat sling would have been against an 
> armored knight in period. Most are familiar with the biblical David  and 
> Goliath story, but there wasn't as much armor there. But I believe  they 
> were used on the medieval battlefield even if mostly as lightly  armored 
> auxiliaries.
>
> So the more research on how and when it was used and it's  effectiveness 
> on medieval slings would help.
>
> What I believe Lady Runa was trying to simulate with the "small Nerf  type 
> footballs and duct taped" was the period sling "bullet" that was  the same 
> size and shape of these nerf type footballs, but made of  LEAD. Now anyone 
> who wants to put on their period style armor and let  us sling some of 
> those lead "footballs" at them, please contact us so  we can arrange a 
> demo somewhere. Especially if you are one to shrug  off that these might 
> have been real weapons. It will take us some time  to locate and cast some 
> of these "footballs" but I'm sure something  can be arranged. :-)
>
> And I would love to have a more comprehensive, organized article on  the 
> use of slings in our time of study, for the Florilegium. Right  now, all I 
> have is the collection of messages that you did find.
>
> Even if not allowed immediately on the battlefield, I think it could  make 
> an interesting "thrown weapons" type competition.  If you are  using real 
> rocks, you might have to figure out how to keep mis-thrown  rocks from 
> injuring a bystander.
>
> I could see arguments about slings being too dangerous to use in the  SCA 
> as a "thrown weapon" but not effective/dangerous enough to be used  in SCA 
> combat. Such is politics in the SCA.
>
> Stefan
>
> On Jul 29, 2011, at 1:21 AM, Bill Tait wrote:
>
>> Slings are specifically not legal.
>>
>> From Society Marshal Handbook, VII A 13:
>>
>>
>> 13. No missile weapons intended to simulate firearms, slings, 
>> slingstaffs,
>> nor Atlatl's can be used on the field
>> of Armored Combat
>>
>> And in all honesty, a period-used sling was most lethal against  rabbits 
>> than
>> armored fighters. (Except possibly to the face).
>>
>> I believe one of the reasons for disallowing slings is one of  safety. 
>> The
>> cord could either enter a bar grille, or wrap around a throat.
>>
>> William Arwemakere
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Sher M <runa.herd at earthlink.net> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm working on getting qualified as a combat archer (crossbow). 
>>> However
>>> (isn't there always one) I've been reading the Florilegium  regarding 
>>> slings.
>>> Why can't they be used as either a primary weapon or a secondary 
>>> weapon?
>>> I've discovered I'm pretty good for first time sling user.  Could  find
>>> nothing about SCA legal "rocks" for slings so I got some small Nerf 
>>> type
>>> footballs and duct taped the dickens out of them turning them into  a 
>>> sphere
>>> shape (i.e. more or less round).  I know what I can do with a rock  but
>>> figured if I threw a rock at an Armored Combat Fighter he/she would  hit 
>>> me
>>> back, hard and over and over again.
>>>
>>> And if slings are legal to use on the field who would authorize you?
>>> Thrown Weapons?  Siege Weapons?  Would the "rocks" have to be  covered 
>>> in
>>> yellow duct tape?  What would be the minimum and maximum size/ weight 
>>> limit?
>>>
>>> Which brings up another question.  How does one determine what is a  SCA
>>> Tavern Fight Legal Weapon?
>>>
>>> Lady Runa of The Thundering Herd (wannabe slinger)
>>> Barony of Raven's Fort
>>> Knight Marshal
>>> Apprentice to Mistress Shanahan
>>> Bronze, Tidal Thunder
>>> Amazon Household
>
> --------
> THLord Stefan li Rous    Barony of Bryn Gwlad    Kingdom of Ansteorra
>    Mark S. Harris           Austin, Texas 
> StefanliRous at austin.rr.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/marksharris
> **** See Stefan's Florilegium files at:  http://www.florilegium.org ****
>
>
>
>
>
>
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