[Ansteorra] Ansteorra Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2
Amber Gatlin
greenrebma at gmail.com
Wed Nov 2 13:03:15 PDT 2011
The halloween pumpkin shoot.
Thank you so much to everyone who made myself and my mom feel so welcome
the moment we hit the door!
The food was delicious, the company full of opinions and stories and the
archers were awesome!
A special thanks to Kim Law (Hosp. for stargate I believe) for being so
kind.
Cant wait for the next event!
Thank You
Amber
On Nov 2, 2011 2:00 PM, <ansteorra-request at lists.ansteorra.org> wrote:
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than "Re: Contents of Ansteorra digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: (no subject) (Rose M. Welch)
2. BAM needs You!!! (Patricia Schmidt)
3. Re: Battle of Three Kings (Galen Bevel)
4. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts (ysfaeleleanor at aol.com)
5. Re: Gypsy readings at Seawinds... (Joanne Murphy)
6. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Rose)
7. Re: Same-Sex Consorts (Rose)
8. Re: Same-Sex Consorts (Rose)
9. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Rose)
10. Re: Same-Sex Consorts (Rose)
11. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Rose)
12. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Ian Dun Gillan)
13. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts (franchesca at bush-family.com)
14. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Doug Copley)
15. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (HerrDetlef)
16. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts??? (Miles Grey)
17. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Holly Decker)
18. Re: Gypsy readings at Seawinds... (Viviana Rowntree)
19. Re: Gypsy readings at Seawinds... (Viviana Rowntree)
20. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Peter Wohlers)
21. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts? (Doug Copley)
22. Re: Artisan Row Event at Steppes Warlord 2012 (Vickie)
23. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts (Miles Grey)
24. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts (Miles Grey)
25. Re: Battle of Three Kings (Master Kainin)
26. "Attention Ansteorra and all Her ships at sea!"
(Pukhta 'Pooky' Lovtsevich)
27. Re: (no subject) (Tim McDaniel)
28. Re: Royalty - Same Sex Consorts (Sir Lyonel)
29. Re: (no subject) (Sir Lyonel)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 14:38:51 -0500
From: "Rose M. Welch" <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] (no subject)
Message-ID: <sx9gehvml8mfivmko15wv8ga.1320176331800 at email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I heartily concur! :P
-R
Sent from my Android-powered phone
Michelle Lindsey <michellechantal at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Michelle
>
>Sent from my iPhone.
>_______________________________________________
>Ansteorra mailing list
>Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 14:22:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patricia Schmidt <iris20 at sbcglobal.net>
To: bordermarch at lists.ansteorra.org, ravensfort at lists.ansteorra.org,
Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: [Ansteorra] BAM needs You!!!
Message-ID: <1320182576.68222.YahooMailRC at web81207.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
BAM will be upon us far sooner than we think!? How do we possibly get
everyone
to rise and greet the day or possibly keep them in the "know"?
Cry Heralds need You!? Come, be an intragal part of the Fabulous event
known as
BAM!!!
What do Cry Heralds do?
Well... we "Tell 'Em Where To Go and Make 'Em Like It!".? Actually, we??
?????
awaken the event for the day & give them? any?additional information/changes
during the afternoon.?
How long does it take?
Shifts generally take a maximum of 20 minutes of your time twice a day at
7:30a
and at 3:00p on Friday and Saturday of the event.? Choose one or as mamy
shifts
as you like.? The more the Merrier!!!
Come!!! Be a part of some of the most fum at BAM!!? Learn how to dodge
shoes! Or
Become an expert at getting their attention...
Seriously, please contact M. Jalali of Salamis at iris20 at sbcglobal.net and
sign
up for your shift today!
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 18:03:50 -0500
From: Galen Bevel <grafgalen at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Battle of Three Kings
Message-ID:
<CAOOLDGD9W=SWVVj=hBuNj3MLpmzFAxfJ3NK1gdT1DyrwGv9o2g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Unto my Righteous Brother Master Hugh de Revel, GrandMaster of the
Hospital, and to the people of this vast land of Ansteorra, Do I, Anno
von Sangershausen, Hochmeister der des Orden der Br?der vom Deutschen
Haus St. Mariens in Jerusalem,( the Order of the Brothers of the
German House of St.
Mary in Jerusalem, known also as the Teutonic Order), send greetings,
I find myself and my companion brothers to be on a pilgrimmage much
like yourself, travelling to the city of Acre to address the strife
that has gripped our botherhoods in recent months and years. The
tension between our orders has perhaps taken our eye off of the main
goal of our charter, to protect and provide succor and Hospital to
those many good Christian pilgrims who make the long journey to visit
the most holy Kingdom of Jerusalem. I go to mend the rifts that have
grown and make peace that we may stand together against the enemies
that threaten that good land.
It therefore brings great distress to my heart to see the words of
your missif, indicating that you build an army to attend upon you at
what is to be a gathering of peace. Since the inception of our
charter, the Teutonic order has always received the smallest portion
of the resources, land and treasure in Jerusalem, but we have kept
faith and struggled onward to perform our duty none the less.
Now it seems that we are to be met at the gate by an opposing force.
I come to make peace, but I will no longer allow the good german
pilgrims of our lord to be trampled in the dust. If a force is to be
raised against us, we will come likewise in force. I invite all those
with a sense for justice and righteous anger to join me in Acre.
Welcome all will be, whether a Knight of Our Lord, or a secular man at
Arms. I pronounce an exemption of the OrdensRule against Tournament
for the day. We will face all who oppose us, whether in peaceful
contests at arms, or conflict upon the field. We will give as we are
offered.
I beg you brother, look to your people, your kit, and your manner.
Take stock and do what is right.
Gott mit uns
Anno von Sangershausen,
Hochmeister der den MarienRitter
(aka Graf Galen Kirchenbauer in these lands of Ansteorra)
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Wes Hanna <kainintepesa at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Unto mighty Ansteorra, do I, Hugh de Revel, Grand Master of the Order of
the Hospitallers send greetings.
>
> Brothers and sisters, I hope that this missive finds you traveling now to
Acre, to join with the Hospitallers (remember, good guys wear black) in the
Tournament of the Cross (
http://rosenfeld.ansteorra.org/indextournamentofthecross.php ). We need
warriors, archers, siege crews, artisans, bards and support staff to help
ensure that the Hospitalers stand strong in the struggle for dominance in
Acre, and therefore all of the Holy Land. I hope that this conflict can be
resolved peacefully, but should it come to battle, I need the might of
Ansteorra at my back.
>
> In your debt,
> Hugh de Revel
> Grand Master of the Hospital
> (aka Master Kainin)
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 19:11:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: ysfaeleleanor at aol.com
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
Message-ID: <8CE6702BAA19228-BBC-C22CD at Webmail-d119.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I agree with Piet, but find his posting funny and ironic, given his motto.
Pax,
Ysfael
Mors ultima ratio
CAVE QUID DICIS,QUANDO,ET CUI
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tue, Nov 1, 2011 4:46 am
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
You say short sighted I say far sighted to see how it will effect Ansteorra
in
the future. Again saying that it's ok because it's only happening somewhere
else
so don't worry about it is a historically stupid argument.
Pieter
CAVE QUID DICIS,QUANDO,ET CUI
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 23:11:17 -0500
From: Joanne Murphy <joannemurphy111 at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gypsy readings at Seawinds...
Message-ID:
<CAHnqc7_4oPnp6WTvKvoCS5bxRJApSwFmy=er8P4jqVJ49BF96A at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Just in case you lost it, my new email is
joannemurphy111 at gmail.com
Good to have you here this weekend.
Joanna
On Mon, Oct 24, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Viviana Rowntree
<tinygypsylady at gmail.com>wrote:
> A very dear friend of mine, a Gypsy by the name of Valdoma, has offered to
> do readings on the eve of October 29th as it will be days away from the
All
> Hallow's Eve.
>
> She is asking for a small donation of coin or trinkets in exchange for the
> readings. Those items donated will be offered to the Crown as payment for
> her being the Their Lands.
>
> Please see Her Excellency Daria, who will be merchanting, to get on
> Valdoma's list.
>
> In Service to the Dream,
>
> Viviana
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:20:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: David Brown <lddevin03 at yahoo.com>, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,
Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID:
<1320211250.12599.YahooMailNeo at web122114.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
"Situation B: A married couple have spent the last year as the seneschal
and herald of a barony. They have found it convenient having these two
high-paperwork offices in the same house, and so they are both stepping
down together. Another couple want to do the same thing, and have
applied to be replacement officers, which they want to do together.
However, they are both heralds, and they are asking the barony to have
two heralds and no seneschal for the next two years. Should they be
allowed to do so? I think everyone who understands the SCA structure
will say "No"."
This scenario is a little confusing to me. I understand that the duties of
a Senechal and a Herald are very different, but I don't understand how they
relate to our Crown, in reference to their genders. Is there something that
our Crowns do that involves their private bits? If so, please explain.
(Off-list, if necessary to avoid tender eyes.)
-Rose
?
* * * * * * *
I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Same-Sex Consorts
Message-ID:
<1320211456.88091.YahooMailNeo at web122117.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
In Ansteorra, where both tourney entrant and consort are have a decent list
of requirements to enter the list, that is true. In other Kingdoms, that is
not so true. I'm sure that everyone knows of at least one reign where the
consort 'opted-out' and was never seen again, and many, many others where
the consort might as well have been gone. If Society-wide representation is
an issue, there are many ways to go about attaining that, but requiring
that all consorts have certain private bits doesn't seem to be one of them.
-R
?
* * * * * * *
I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
________________________________
From: Adam R Thompson <adam.r.thompson1 at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Same-Sex Consorts
Kings sharing the throne were brothers or fathers/sons generally. In the
case of the Eastern and Western Roman Emperors they still each had an
Empress and a royal family.
The other issue that no one seems to be talking about is representation.
The current system guarantees a 50/50 split of male/female on the thrones.
Sent from my iPhone
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: Janice Dean Simpson <janicedean88 at yahoo.com>, "Kingdom of
Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Same-Sex Consorts
Message-ID:
<1320212368.30687.YahooMailNeo at web122102.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
"I know several powerhouse groups, in several kingdoms. ?These groups do
not always win Crown now because someone is either unable to find a
consort, the consort (wife, girlfriend, etc) does not want to rule; or
that fighter never really thought about it."
That all seems very unlikely. How many Crowns have we had that have ruled
with persons that they were not romantically involved with? If finding
someone to rule with you is that hard, then there is likely some other
issue at play.
"Bill fights for Gene who fights for Ray who fights for Tom who fights
for Phil who fights for Kelly who fights for Bob who fights for Tim who
fights for Mark who fights for Al who fights for Bill."
I've met quite a few powerhouse fighters, but none that would participate
in this type of scheme. If I were Sir Bill, Sir Gene, Sir Ray, Sir Tom. Sir
Phil, Sir Kelly, Sir Bob, Sir Tim, Sir Mark, Sir Al, or the knight who had
spoken for any of them, I would be pretty offended at the idea that I might
participate in such a scheme.
"That is 10
fighters who are amazing fighters, and normally would not compete for
whatever reason. ?But now, to keep their group in power; they each chose
one as a consort. ?At the next Crown tournament, the same group (minus
the ruling pair) do the same."
The solution to this is simple. The first Crown looks at the Letters of
Intent for Sir Bill, Sir Gene, Sir Ray, Sir Tom. Sir Phil, Sir Kelly, Sir
Bob, Sir Tim, Sir Mark, and Sir Al and politely declines them leave to
enter the list, as any of our honorable Crowns would do.
"Not only does this link one powerhouse
into the Throne for years to come, but wives, girlfriends and other
significant others are unable to rule with their partners because the
group decided it is better to win over and over than to honor the
relationship."
Again, the big problem I see with this scenario is that the fighters that
are good enough to win are too honorable to participate in this kind of
scheme, especially because it would be obvious to everyone. I mean, can you
imagine what the procession would look like, lol?
And, of course, we already have ways to 'game the system'. One way would be
for two 'superdukes' to leapfrog one another, which they can do right now.
Another way would be for a small number of dukes to enter the list with the
intention of beating the entrant that they don't want to rule, and then
ducalling out. (Of course, one might call the latter scenario a quiet sort
of 'check-and-balance', rather than 'gaming the system', but I digress.) My
point is that IE is not going to make the system any more susceptible to
dishonorable superdukes, or those who would like to be dishonorable
superdukes.
-R
?
* * * * * * *
I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
________________________________
From: Janice Dean Simpson <janicedean88 at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Same-Sex Consorts
I am not looking at the sexual preference part of the debate.
I am looking at a side that is a bit worrisome to me:
I know several powerhouse groups, in several kingdoms. ?These groups do not
always win Crown now because someone is either unable to find a consort,
the consort (wife, girlfriend, etc) does not want to rule; or that fighter
never really thought about it. ?Let's say same sex consorts are allowed:
Then:
Bill fights for Gene who fights for Ray who fights for Tom who fights for
Phil who fights for Kelly who fights for Bob who fights for Tim who fights
for Mark who fights for Al who fights for Bill.
That is 10 fighters who are amazing fighters, and normally would not
compete for whatever reason. ?But now, to keep their group in power; they
each chose one as a consort. ?At the next Crown tournament, the same group
(minus the ruling pair) do the same.
Not only does this link one powerhouse into the Throne for years to come,
but wives, girlfriends and other significant others are unable to rule with
their partners because the group decided it is better to win over and over
than to honor the relationship. ?
And, no; I do not think saying you can not fight for someone who is a
consort will work, as many husband-wife pairs fight for each other. ?Both
are fighters. ?You can not say that the consort must be in a relationship
with the fighter: ?because then you must define relationship. ?If I am your
friend, then we have a relationship. ?If you are my team-mate: ?we have a
relationship.
Too much of a slippery slope to settle in one sitting.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:55:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID:
<1320213317.9082.YahooMailNeo at web122117.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
"How about someone with a Christian persona... do we then prevent anyone
with a Muslim persona from fighting for the crown because there's no way
this one player could bend his knee to a Muslim King?"
Ironically, in An Tir, when several couples were turned away from the list
for their genders, the final couple did ask permission for their Muslim
persona to fight for their consort's Christian persona.There is an account
of it here, for those who are on the dreaded Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/groups/InspriationalEquality/doc/235570729822888/
As for 'historical accuracy' and the 'what about how bad it looks' crowd,
I'd like to know why we don't require that our Crowns share the same place
and time period. :P
With tongue firmly in cheek,
Rose the Obnoxious
?
* * * * * * *
I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
________________________________
From: Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>
To: Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net>; "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <
ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
> Specifically, there are many SCA members whose personas and entire
approach to the SCA is based on their relationship to their king, or their
queen.
>
> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
Okay, so what if someone said that their persona believed the King had
to be mightier than him, and had to be able to best him in combat. Do
we then prevent women from fighting for non-fighting men because he
couldn't respect this "King"?
How about someone with a Christian persona... do we then prevent
anyone with a Muslim persona from fighting for the crown because
there's no way this one player could bend his knee to a Muslim King?
If your persona gets to dictate the rules and make certain
requirements, why can't everyone's "needs" in a ruler be accommodated?
The current system happens to support your character's desires in a
ruler, but that doesn't mean it's any more justified or reasonable
than those other scenarios.
On the off chance that two men did happen to win, why couldn't your
persona worship the princess while they were on the thrones? And for
the couple of months between Coronation and Crown Tournament, how
about pledging your sword to a Baroness? Or enjoy some schtick where
you wait for the "one true Queen" to return? Our middle name here is
"Creative" after all, if the situation arises, use it as an
opportunity to stretch your creativity.
~Eve
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In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 22:57:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Same-Sex Consorts
Message-ID:
<1320213449.21959.YahooMailNeo at web122112.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Well, this is my point of view, which makes it the point of view of a lady
(and even a Lady!) but not the point of view of all ladies (or Ladies). :P
Logically speaking, taking
an action that purposefully and exclusively removes restrictions on a
specific
subset of individuals does not arbitrarily create restrictions on another
(albeit much larger) subset of individuals. If we lowered the minimum age
for
being a Seneschal to 17, that doesn't mean we are unfairly creating a
disadvantage for potential Seneschals 18 and above, just because we're
increasing the available pool of candidates.
More importantly, as a
woman, I can never be represented by inequality and thus, am not currently
represented by our Kings and Queens. You see,
I'm not solely a woman. I'm a gay woman and a brown woman and a mother and
so
on. I am an intersection of these things, and I accept inequality for none
of
them. Further, even if I were solely a woman, and not brown or gay or a
mother,
I wouldn't want the kind of representation that comes at the expense of
equality.
?
And, of course, there
remains the fact that we have very few women with the impetus to win Crown
Tourney, and even fewer that have same-sex consorts that also want to
reign. If
we build it, maybe no one will come and nothing will change, but we will
still
be a better society for providing that opportunity.
Lady Rose the Obnoxious
?
* * * * * * *
I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
________________________________
From: Eric Brown <caladin at bz93.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 11:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Same-Sex Consorts
Honestly I'd like to hear what the ladies think of this argument, I've
really only heard it
held out by lords so far.
Cal-
On 10/30/2011 8:05 PM, Adam R Thompson wrote:
> There are very capable female fighters all over the known world but Tivar
>? makes a very valid point. One Queen by right of Arms, and 5 Princesses
by
>? right of arms, 4 of those ladies are in the West Kingdom. Additionally
there are
>? currently only 33 women to ever be entered on to the roles of the
Chivalry.
>? So one of the things that has to be considered with this argument is who
>? actually benefits. I mentioned in a previous post that the current
system is a
>? 50/50 split male female on our thrones. This could most likely make that
>? woefully unbalanced.
>
> It's not the only argument I have against this but it is what relates to
>? this post.
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In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2011 23:01:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID:
<1320213712.50858.YahooMailNeo at web122116.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
In that case, good Don, what makes a Queen? Is it the bits under the dress,
or the dress itself? If it's the former, then when do those bits come into
play? If it's the latter, would a consort in a houppelande suffice?
-R
?
* * * * * * *
I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
________________________________
From: Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
If you are asking this question then you truly do not understand the rapier
community or the White Scarves of Ansteorra. The cult of Gloriana is at
it's core a true love of our Queen. There is no streching creativity in
that. We have a Queen and we are devout in our attention to her. Those of
us who win baronial championships to try to give as much attention to the
baroness of that group as we can and most try to make her feel like a Queen
but in the end there is but one Queen of Ansteorra. Remove the community
from the Quuen or the Queen from the community and a great loss will be
felt in this kingdom.
Don Pieter Rausch
>>
>
> On the off chance that two men did happen to win, why couldn't your
> persona worship the princess while they were on the thrones? And for
> the couple of months between Coronation and Crown Tournament, how
> about pledging your sword to a Baroness? Or enjoy some schtick where
> you wait for the "one true Queen" to return? Our middle name here is
> "Creative" after all, if the situation arises, use it as an
> opportunity to stretch your creativity.
>
> ~Eve
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
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In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 01:30:32 -0500
From: "Ian Dun Gillan" <ian1550 at sbcglobal.net>
To: "'Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc.'"
<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID: <001501cc9928$ec8bfac0$c5a3f040$@net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Must humble greetings to one and all.
Please try to see with in the eyes of your imagination one fighter, a
person who for years has trained in the marshal skills who summons all
their honor, courage, and chivalry entering the lists for the one whose
favor they bear. The person who provided that favor resides within the
heart and soul of that fighter as the love of their life and the
inspiration to make them be the knight they have become. On that one day in
the crown tournament above all others that one fighter wins to claim the
crown and the kingdom. The fighter won because their prowess and the honor,
courage, and chivalry they have exhibited are the self same qualities that
their significant other inspires and our teachings instills within them.
Picture now how with great pride at the height of glory that fighter is
crowned Prince and turns to place upon the head of their consort the
crown...imagine that is you, imagine how you feel in that one moment.
Lords and Ladies, Nobles, good folk all isn't that moment at the height of
glory the very heart and soul of the dream that is the SCA? All I have to
say is why steal that away from someone just because the sex of the person
who inspires is the same as the hand that wins the honor.
Helping each other to achieve their dreams of being a noble, a knight, a
king, or even a queen isn't that the main reason we play this game of dress
up. My personal opinion is that sometimes because of all our rules that we
forget that.
Most kindly
Ian Dun Gillan
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 01 Nov 2011 18:50:58 +0000
From: franchesca at bush-family.com
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
Message-ID: <20cf3079b7880702c404b0b0d6d9 at google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes
So I have a question. What makes a Queen? Does a Queen have to half the
right plumbing, wear a dress or other feminine clothing?
I am just wondering because standing behind Queen Amelot at Queen's
Champion as part of her Entourage, after fighting in two rounds of her
championship, I saw the importance and emotion to both sides of the
interchanges. I also sensed that it might have been more special for
everyone since Her Majesty is a Dona in her own right. I may be incorrect
on this point however. But is it the title or the person, or both? I don't
know, maybe the people who might want to have a same sex consort won't mind
still being a King and Queen. Maybe the Rapier community just wants their
Queen regardless of sex.
I dont' know the answer. I think the topic is quite interesting. There are
a lot of issues to be hammered out for all of the SCA. It seems to me more
people are more concerned about how it affects how the game is played and
how their personas will handle the changes rather than an overwhelming
issue with the fact we are dealing with a gay rights issue.
Although, for those who have brought up concern for the kids.... Children
generally learn by example. In general they are accepting to love and
respect of others. They do sense when their adults are scared, fearful,
upset, or distrustful. Hence my step kids are scared of snakes and bugs
because of their parents reactions. We teach them to be wary of strangers.
If we react in a way that shows dislike, distrust, fear upon seeing a
couple that does not meet a preconceived notion of what is a couple should
look like, then they will begin to look at those couples in those ways.
I know it pleases me to see my daughter approach all people, animals,
situations with joy and wonder. She has seen same sex couples and
acknowledge when they are kissing. She has no fear for various shades of
skin or an abundance (or lack of) wrinkles. While she is only 2, I know
this is not the case for all toddlers. I am not concerned for her by seeing
two Kings, or two Queens. Or a King and Queen of the same sex. I don't see
the point. My daughter knows who the Queen and King are. She also
recognizes that the King and Queen are not "together" because she knows who
their respective partners are. (though she does favor Her Majesty over
Lorenzo for sure. ;) )
So my point is, don't worry that having same sex consorts might confuse the
children. It won't if you can handle it. They are only confused if they
sense acceptance from one group and not from their parents/guardians. If
you don't like that type of relationship, you can use it as an discussion
point to discuss those feelings you have. I think it only matters really if
that dislike, fear, hatred (whatever fits) is bigger than your love for the
game.
Franchesca/Francisca Sastre de Arellano
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 07:43:25 -0500
From: Doug Copley <doug.copley at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID: <4EB13AED.4080201 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
The office of Herald and the office of Seneschal have nothing to do with
each other. Both are individual officers and neither have a gender
stigma attached to them. Also this would be leaving one office open and
the duties not done.
My understanding of the Same Sex Consorts is that the office would still
be filled, the duties would still be performed, the representation would
still be there. The difference is only that person in the "Queen" might
be wearing pants or the person in the "King" might be wearing a dress.
Vincenti
On 11/2/2011 12:20 AM, Rose wrote:
> "Situation B: A married couple have spent the last year as the seneschal
> and herald of a barony. They have found it convenient having these two
> high-paperwork offices in the same house, and so they are both stepping
> down together. Another couple want to do the same thing, and have
> applied to be replacement officers, which they want to do together.
> However, they are both heralds, and they are asking the barony to have
> two heralds and no seneschal for the next two years. Should they be
> allowed to do so? I think everyone who understands the SCA structure
> will say "No"."
>
>
>
> This scenario is a little confusing to me. I understand that the duties
of a Senechal and a Herald are very different, but I don't understand how
they relate to our Crown, in reference to their genders. Is there something
that our Crowns do that involves their private bits? If so, please explain.
(Off-list, if necessary to avoid tender eyes.)
>
>
> -Rose
>
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 07:58:58 -0500
From: HerrDetlef <herrdetlef at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID:
<CAFdr7Afj3vhikCZ2Kj4vzY=WJ-xy5edE+LTye2VaakNdrEERKA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
This is going to sound horribly rude, but as a matter of fact, it IS the
bits under the dress that make a Queen. In mundane precedent, a Queen
consort's only job is to produce an heir for the king.
This is part of the tricky situation in which the United Kingdom will one
day find itself. The Heir Apparent's consort is not the mother of his
children, and she will not be able to produce an heir for him. So there is
talk about elevating her to the style and title "HRH The Princess Consort."
Of course, this is silly; there is only one word in the English language
for the wife of a king. And Henry VIII's wives after Jane Seymour (Anne of
Cleves, Catherine Howard, and Catherine Parr) were all queens, even though
Jane had already produced the coveted heir for Henry.
That aside, the function of producing an heir for the king is irrelevant in
SCA practice, since Crowns are not inherited according to biological
descent (and, unlike mundane precedent, the queen need not be the legally
married spouse of the king). With that out of the way, the proper role of a
Queen in the SCA is to share in the ceremonial leadership of a kingdom.
Detlef
On Wed, Nov 2, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com> wrote:
> In that case, good Don, what makes a Queen? Is it the bits under the
> dress, or the dress itself? If it's the former, then when do those bits
> come into play? If it's the latter, would a consort in a houppelande
> suffice?
>
> -R
>
>
> * * * * * * *
>
>
> I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm not
> sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
>
> If you are asking this question then you truly do not understand the
> rapier community or the White Scarves of Ansteorra. The cult of Gloriana
is
> at it's core a true love of our Queen. There is no streching creativity in
> that. We have a Queen and we are devout in our attention to her. Those of
> us who win baronial championships to try to give as much attention to the
> baroness of that group as we can and most try to make her feel like a
Queen
> but in the end there is but one Queen of Ansteorra. Remove the community
> from the Quuen or the Queen from the community and a great loss will be
> felt in this kingdom.
> Don Pieter Rausch
>
> >>
> >
> > On the off chance that two men did happen to win, why couldn't your
> > persona worship the princess while they were on the thrones? And for
> > the couple of months between Coronation and Crown Tournament, how
> > about pledging your sword to a Baroness? Or enjoy some schtick where
> > you wait for the "one true Queen" to return? Our middle name here is
> > "Creative" after all, if the situation arises, use it as an
> > opportunity to stretch your creativity.
> >
> > ~Eve
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra mailing list
> > Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> > In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
--
Hw?t! We Gardena in geardagum,
?eodcyninga, ?rym gefrunon,
hu ?a ??elingas ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing scea?ena ?reatum,
monegum m?g?um, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas. Sy??an ?rest wear?
feasceaft funden, he ??s frofre gebad,
weox under wolcnum, weor?myndum ?ah,
o???t him ?ghwylc ?ara ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan. ??t w?s god cyning!
------------------------------
Message: 16
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:00:05 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Miles Grey" <Kahn at West-Point.org>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts???
Message-ID:
<768744143539a826f80abab78b86052c.squirrel at webmail.west-point.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Ian Dun Gillan wrote:
> Lords and Ladies, Nobles, good folk all isn't that moment at the height of
> glory the very heart and soul of the dream that is the SCA? All I have to
> say is why steal that away from someone just because the sex of the person
> who inspires is the same as the hand that wins the honor.
Because no matter how much it means to the people who become our Crown,
it's not really about them. They assume the throne for us. That's also
why we still have the Ducal privilege. That's why so many of us close our
postings with "In Service." While they should be treasured by those who
earn them, the Royalty, Peers, and Nobility do not exist primarily to
reward those who receive them. They exist first and foremost because we -
the ordinary populace - need them.
We play this game in large part to escape the mundane world. To change
this would be just one more bit of conformity with the current political
and social pressures of the mundane world. Shall we really be just like
everyone else? I can get that dose of mundanity at a local bar.
I choose to live in this part of the country because it is different than
the rest. I travel to Los Angeles frequently, and one thing I hear from
ladies multiple times on every trip is the lamentation that they no longer
receive the special treatment and attention that ladies used to expect.
Here in Ansteorra, here in what is often seen by other Kingdoms as a
"Barbarian Kingdom," should we really be looking to dissolve all these
distinctions?
I do my best to ignore the inevitable politics that exist in the SCA while
knowing full well that any group of people will have them. The mundane
world has made me jaded and cynical. I've found myself feeling a bit
burned out toward the SCA as well, in part because so much of the real
world intrudes. I purchased a period pavilion and try to improve my garb
to help create the atmosphere that will banish the mundane world, if just
for a few hours at a few events.
Once we let enough of the mundane world into our game, it ceases being The
Dream and becomes just another costume party. Once winning Crown becomes
more about rewarding the victor than about serving Kingdom and populace,
then it becomes just another sporting event. We're close enough to those
lines already. So go ahead, sacrifice yet another part of The Dream to
the mundane world. Given the realities of today's economy, how much more
can be sacrificed before The Dream becomes the memory and it just isn't
special enough to justify the expense of a 3-8 hour drive? Change this,
and you will drive away a few more. Maybe they should be driven out.
Maybe to some it will be fun to figure out precisely what level of
participation is critical mass, the dividing line between just enough for
it to work and not quite enough to sustain this thing. Have fun with
that.
In Service,
Miles Grey
------------------------------
Message: 17
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:03:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Holly Decker <hdec333 at aol.com>
To: ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID: <8CE6776F4AD979F-8D8-11EF29 at webmail-d148.sysops.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
You see, I like that we're an historical re-creative group and with a few
exceptions {deodorant, toothpaste, store bought fabric, etc }we try to
adhere to that. Personally I feel that if we become too PC we're in danger
of becoming merely a "dress-up" costume party. That being said, if it
was done in written history, then why not?
Sincerely,
Anna Mirofanova
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert G. Ferrell <rgferrell at gmail.com>
To: Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc. <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Sat, Oct 29, 2011 11:17 am
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
On 10/29/2011 1:07 PM, Adam R Thompson wrote:
> Co-Kings and Co-Emperors each had their own families. That's much
different
than the consort being the same sex as the sovereign.
Not to put too fine a point on it, but our current model is really not
historically documentable, either. The number of historical monarchs who
have won their thrones by single combat and then appointed a woman to
rule as a co-equal is quite small.
Cynric
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Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
------------------------------
Message: 18
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:14:01 -0500
From: Viviana Rowntree <tinygypsylady at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gypsy readings at Seawinds...
Message-ID:
<CANrp_J-DGVcAH2GOshWsNnt75N6ZKTjMRnV3ZRqOQ5M7GcerxA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Joanna,
I had a great time. Thank you for making me feel like part of the group.
Hey, are you the contact for Seawinds scribal too? Or do you want to be?
V
On Tue, Nov 1, 2011 at 11:11 PM, Joanne Murphy <joannemurphy111 at gmail.com
>wrote:
> Just in case you lost it, my new email is
> joannemurphy111 at gmail.com
> Good to have you here this weekend.
> Joanna
------------------------------
Message: 19
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:14:32 -0500
From: Viviana Rowntree <tinygypsylady at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Gypsy readings at Seawinds...
Message-ID:
<CANrp_J8GHAD2C1=7QLXbsx9-q1O-fUdKzW87QOsLLaycuQZG6g at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sorry.. meant to be a private missive.
Must find coffee....
------------------------------
Message: 20
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 08:21:53 -0500
From: Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
To: Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com>, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,Inc."
<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID: <C33EE78A-D399-4692-B48D-FFF1BC79AA45 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Well let's first define the word since you are unclear or unable:
queen
[kween]
- noun1. female sovereign2. the wife of a king3. the fertile female of
bees, ants, etc.- verb (used with object)4. to crown as queen
So as we see in the definition of the word class, the first point is that
SHE is female. Not a man dressed as a woman but female. As to the second
part even if the couple in the SCA is not really married in real life the
queen portrays that role. I know that there are examples of a single queen
like the great gloriana herself Elizabeth but she is a glorious one off
example of an unmarried Queen. And to note a female. The third, not
important to the conversation, as we are not bees or ants and do not play
them in our personas thou many crowns in the SCA work like busy bees to
keep the kingdom running.
Remember class always use reference sources before asking question. It
helps keep the class moving.
Don Pieter
CAVE QUID DICIS,QUANDO,ET CUI
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 2, 2011, at 1:01 AM, Rose <rose_welch at yahoo.com> wrote:
> In that case, good Don, what makes a Queen? Is it the bits under the
dress, or the dress itself? If it's the former, then when do those bits
come into play? If it's the latter, would a consort in a houppelande
suffice?
>
> -R
>
>
> * * * * * * *
>
>
> I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm
not sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
>
> If you are asking this question then you truly do not understand the
rapier community or the White Scarves of Ansteorra. The cult of Gloriana is
at it's core a true love of our Queen. There is no streching creativity in
that. We have a Queen and we are devout in our attention to her. Those of
us who win baronial championships to try to give as much attention to the
baroness of that group as we can and most try to make her feel like a Queen
but in the end there is but one Queen of Ansteorra. Remove the community
from the Quuen or the Queen from the community and a great loss will be
felt in this kingdom.
> Don Pieter Rausch
>
>>>
>>
>> On the off chance that two men did happen to win, why couldn't your
>> persona worship the princess while they were on the thrones? And for
>> the couple of months between Coronation and Crown Tournament, how
>> about pledging your sword to a Baroness? Or enjoy some schtick where
>> you wait for the "one true Queen" to return? Our middle name here is
>> "Creative" after all, if the situation arises, use it as an
>> opportunity to stretch your creativity.
>>
>> ~Eve
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ansteorra mailing list
>> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
------------------------------
Message: 21
Date: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 08:31:06 -0500
From: Doug Copley <doug.copley at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
Message-ID: <4EB1461A.2070609 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
My Lords and Ladies,
There is no need to be condescending or rude to anyone here on the list.
I believe that all of us want what is best for t e SCA, the game, and
the Dream. The only questions are how the Dream looks and what is the
best way to get there. Both of these are subjective opinions that need
to be discussed openly and freely.
YIS,
Vincenti
On 11/2/2011 8:21 AM, Peter Wohlers wrote:
> Well let's first define the word since you are unclear or unable:
> queen
> [kween]
> - noun1. female sovereign2. the wife of a king3. the fertile female of
bees, ants, etc.- verb (used with object)4. to crown as queen
> So as we see in the definition of the word class, the first point is that
SHE is female. Not a man dressed as a woman but female. As to the second
part even if the couple in the SCA is not really married in real life the
queen portrays that role. I know that there are examples of a single queen
like the great gloriana herself Elizabeth but she is a glorious one off
example of an unmarried Queen. And to note a female. The third, not
important to the conversation, as we are not bees or ants and do not play
them in our personas thou many crowns in the SCA work like busy bees to
keep the kingdom running.
>
> Remember class always use reference sources before asking question. It
helps keep the class moving.
>
> Don Pieter
>
> CAVE QUID DICIS,QUANDO,ET CUI
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 2, 2011, at 1:01 AM, Rose<rose_welch at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> In that case, good Don, what makes a Queen? Is it the bits under the
dress, or the dress itself? If it's the former, then when do those bits
come into play? If it's the latter, would a consort in a houppelande
suffice?
>>
>> -R
>>
>>
>> * * * * * * *
>>
>>
>> I know that you believe you understand what you think I meant, but I'm
not sure you realize that what you read is not what I wrote.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Peter Wohlers<donpieter at aol.com>
>> To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc."<ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
>> Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 12:34 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts?
>>
>> If you are asking this question then you truly do not understand the
rapier community or the White Scarves of Ansteorra. The cult of Gloriana is
at it's core a true love of our Queen. There is no streching creativity in
that. We have a Queen and we are devout in our attention to her. Those of
us who win baronial championships to try to give as much attention to the
baroness of that group as we can and most try to make her feel like a Queen
but in the end there is but one Queen of Ansteorra. Remove the community
from the Quuen or the Queen from the community and a great loss will be
felt in this kingdom.
>> Don Pieter Rausch
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> On the off chance that two men did happen to win, why couldn't your
>>> persona worship the princess while they were on the thrones? And for
>>> the couple of months between Coronation and Crown Tournament, how
>>> about pledging your sword to a Baroness? Or enjoy some schtick where
>>> you wait for the "one true Queen" to return? Our middle name here is
>>> "Creative" after all, if the situation arises, use it as an
>>> opportunity to stretch your creativity.
>>>
>>> ~Eve
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Ansteorra mailing list
>>> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>>> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
>>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ansteorra mailing list
>> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
>> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
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>> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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> _______________________________________________
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> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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------------------------------
Message: 22
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 06:55:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vickie <arastya at yahoo.com>
To: Helene Brashear <sillystring13 at gmail.com>, "Kingdom of Ansteorra -
SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Artisan Row Event at Steppes Warlord 2012
Message-ID:
<1320242143.2398.YahooMailNeo at web110607.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I would be ok with a group project, as I can think of several settings
where a group would make more sense.? My only requirement is if you are
entered as part of a group you would not be able to do a second individual
"shop".? I would even be willing to allow a slightly larger space for the
group entry if needed.?
?
What I am wanting is for this to be?fun and challenging.??
Mistress Asiya
Vickie Bratcher
?
?
________________________________
From: Helene Brashear <sillystring13 at gmail.com>
To: Vickie <arastya at yahoo.com>; "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <
ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 1, 2011 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Artisan Row Event at Steppes Warlord 2012
Could this be a group project, since the skills needed to make tools
of a craft are often very different than the skills needed to use
them?? I think that groups could distribute labor enough that they
could really pay attention to detail :)? (Also, it would be a fun
group project! )
Thanks!
- Helene von Braunschweyg
On Sat, Oct 29, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Vickie <arastya at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Greeting,
>
> We will be having an ?Artisan Row? at Steppes Warlord 2012.? It is a
special event and I wanted to give
> all the Artisans of Ansteorra enough time to prepare.? What the?idea of
the ?Artisan Row? is for
> the Artisan?s to set up period looking workshops to display their craft.?
It is a body of work type display, but it
> differs from what we typically think of as a body of work.? It isn?t
about displaying everything you do;
> it is about creating the feel of the workspace your chosen craft would
have
> been created in.
> Some ideas are;
> Jeweler?s Shop
> Blacksmith shop
> Woodworker?s shop
> Tailor?s Shop
> You could even do a lady?s solar for showcasing your
> embroidery or a kitchen for your cooking, it doesn?t have to always be a
work
> shop, just recreate the environment your craft would have been created in.
> Documentation is encouraged but not required.? Documentation for the
items displayed will be
> limited to 3 x 5 cards displayed with the item.? The main documentation
should be for the shop and where you got your ideas
> for the layout and items contained.
> Standard area for the set-up of your workshop is a 10 x 10 foot
> space.? We will have space both inside
> and outside the air-conditioned hall.? We
> will let you know about pre-registration for your reserved spot as we get
> closer to the event.
> More information and details will be provided as we get
> closer to the event.? Please feel free to
> ask questions.
> Mistress Asiya
> Artisan Row Stewart
>
>
> ________________________________
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 23
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:24:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Miles Grey" <Kahn at West-Point.org>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
Message-ID:
<39aae43201995ac1cd6d15b0f22455bb.squirrel at webmail.west-point.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Vincenti wrote:
> My Lords and Ladies,
> There is no need to be condescending or rude to anyone here on the list.
> I believe that all of us want what is best for t e SCA, the game, and the
> Dream. The only questions are how the Dream looks and what is the best
> way to get there. Both of these are subjective opinions that need to be
> discussed openly and freely.
------------------------------
Message: 24
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:30:01 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Miles Grey" <Kahn at West-Point.org>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
Message-ID:
<65c1891024f2ffbef71c5c0436f09a37.squirrel at webmail.west-point.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
That's what I thought they were doing. Question asked and answered. Both
the question and the answer made me smile. Not like a dram of good Scotch
would, but it IS still morning.
Best regards,
Miles Grey
Vincenti wrote:
> My Lords and Ladies,
> There is no need to be condescending or rude to anyone here on the list.
> I believe that all of us want what is best for t e SCA, the game, and the
> Dream. The only questions are how the Dream looks and what is the best
> way to get there. Both of these are subjective opinions that need to be
> discussed openly and freely.
------------------------------
Message: 25
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 09:57:14 -0500
From: Master Kainin <kainintepesa at yahoo.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Battle of Three Kings
Message-ID: <8712FD27-678E-498A-B45C-D9BB34C7D8ED at yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Good Brother Master Anno von Sangershausen,
I fear that you have misunderstood my words, or at the very least the
intent behind them. I called my levies, and asked for the support of the
good people of Ansteorra, not with the intent of initiating any conflict
with my fellow orders but simply for the protection and safety of mine own.
I have had reports that the situation in Acre has reached a boiling point,
and I find it my duty to ensure the safety of that seat, only for the
protection of the pilgrims and good people that inhabit her. I would be
unwise to arrive with no forces in support, and no means to fulfill my
duties.
I too hope that upon my arrival I find peace has come again to Acre and
that we might celebrate a treaty between our orders with tournament and
feasting, but if I find otherwise the Hospitallers will be ready to do
whatever is needed to bring that peace back to the city. Know that we will
not be the cause in any conflict that may come, but we will certainly see
an end to it by whatever means are necessary.
Safe journey to Acre,
Hugh de Revel
Grand Master of the Hospital
(aka Master Kainin)
On Nov 1, 2011, at 6:03 PM, Galen Bevel wrote:
> Unto my Righteous Brother Master Hugh de Revel, GrandMaster of the
> Hospital, and to the people of this vast land of Ansteorra, Do I, Anno
> von Sangershausen, Hochmeister der des Orden der Br?der vom Deutschen
> Haus St. Mariens in Jerusalem,( the Order of the Brothers of the
> German House of St.
> Mary in Jerusalem, known also as the Teutonic Order), send greetings,
>
>
>
> I find myself and my companion brothers to be on a pilgrimmage much
> like yourself, travelling to the city of Acre to address the strife
> that has gripped our botherhoods in recent months and years. The
> tension between our orders has perhaps taken our eye off of the main
> goal of our charter, to protect and provide succor and Hospital to
> those many good Christian pilgrims who make the long journey to visit
> the most holy Kingdom of Jerusalem. I go to mend the rifts that have
> grown and make peace that we may stand together against the enemies
> that threaten that good land.
>
> It therefore brings great distress to my heart to see the words of
> your missif, indicating that you build an army to attend upon you at
> what is to be a gathering of peace. Since the inception of our
> charter, the Teutonic order has always received the smallest portion
> of the resources, land and treasure in Jerusalem, but we have kept
> faith and struggled onward to perform our duty none the less.
>
> Now it seems that we are to be met at the gate by an opposing force.
> I come to make peace, but I will no longer allow the good german
> pilgrims of our lord to be trampled in the dust. If a force is to be
> raised against us, we will come likewise in force. I invite all those
> with a sense for justice and righteous anger to join me in Acre.
> Welcome all will be, whether a Knight of Our Lord, or a secular man at
> Arms. I pronounce an exemption of the OrdensRule against Tournament
> for the day. We will face all who oppose us, whether in peaceful
> contests at arms, or conflict upon the field. We will give as we are
> offered.
>
> I beg you brother, look to your people, your kit, and your manner.
> Take stock and do what is right.
>
> Gott mit uns
>
> Anno von Sangershausen,
> Hochmeister der den MarienRitter
> (aka Graf Galen Kirchenbauer in these lands of Ansteorra)
------------------------------
Message: 26
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 10:50:31 -0500
From: "Pukhta 'Pooky' Lovtsevich" <pookyloves at gmail.com>
To: The Ansteorran Royal Navy <arnavy at yahoogroups.com>, The Stellar
Kingdom of Ansteorra <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Cc: The Hard Working Canton Skorragardr
<SkorragardrVirtualSkald at yahoogroups.com>, The Newest Region of
Ansteorra <northern at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: [Ansteorra] "Attention Ansteorra and all Her ships at sea!"
Message-ID:
<CAAQy2wdPczuzNKZ6iC=m74uYuQabRWKR1Mr1UML5B7Ftrou4vw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Attention Ansteorra and all Her ships at sea,
At Skorragardr's Axeman event, the Cimmeron River Ports shall be a neutral
and non hostile location to set anchor during the duration of the event.
ALL and ANY ships, vessels, and boats their Admiralty, Captains, and crews
of The Ansteorran Royal Navy, Privateers, or despicable Pirating crafts are
invited to dock at Skorragardr's Axeman event, so that we may all discuss
methods of Dream Building off the Coasts and in the Waters of Ansteorra.
Members of the Ansteorran Royal Navy who are unlikely to attend should
contact ME offlist to request dispensation.
Upon the authority of,
Admiral Pukhta 'Pooky' Lovtsevich - XO ~ Executive Officer of the
Ansteorran Royal Navy
Respect and Loving Gratitude,
Pookie
"Love's lifelight dispels all shadows upon the path grown over with truth."
~ Pooky
------------------------------
Message: 27
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:06:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] (no subject)
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.64.1111021258280.27534 at panix3.panix.com>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Michelle Lindsey wrote:
> Subject: [Ansteorra] (no subject)
(and no lines of text)
"No subject" ... you mean that you are not the subject of any person
-- you are implying that we should overthrow the king and queen and
abolish all royalty, and then the question of same-sex monarchs does
not arise!
Good lady, I wish I could but write as tersely, wittily, and
thoughtfully as you.
Denyel (alas, Napier's minimalist message "peccavi" didn't happen)
de Lyncoln
--
Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
------------------------------
Message: 28
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:42:32 -0500
From: Sir Lyonel <sirlyonel at hotmail.com>
To: Miles Grey <Kahn at West-Point.org>, "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA,
Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP429FCFFB309210C3DE56086BAD40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Salut Cozyns,
I submit that the answer made you smile only because you agree. To the
many who see gender as a construct, the answer was arrogant, clues-
minded, and rude. The only irony for me in Piet's post was in his
signature line, which he clearly needs to revisit.
Dennis Grace
(Lyonel's Century has been poisoned by the extreme homophobia of
Eustache Des Champs and the like, but 12th, 13th, and even 16th
Century knights should understand that a question exists in the topic
of gender.)
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 2, 2011, at 9:30 AM, "Miles Grey" <Kahn at West-Point.org> wrote:
> That's what I thought they were doing. Question asked and
> answered. Both
> the question and the answer made me smile. Not like a dram of good
> Scotch
> would, but it IS still morning.
>
> Best regards,
> Miles Grey
>
>
> Vincenti wrote:
>> My Lords and Ladies,
>> There is no need to be condescending or rude to anyone here on the
>> list.
>> I believe that all of us want what is best for t e SCA, the game,
>> and the
>> Dream. The only questions are how the Dream looks and what is the
>> best
>> way to get there. Both of these are subjective opinions that need
>> to be
>> discussed openly and freely.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
------------------------------
Message: 29
Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2011 13:51:58 -0500
From: Sir Lyonel <sirlyonel at hotmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] (no subject)
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1805E3A2292D941F5AA5676BAD40 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed; delsp=yes
Salut Cozyns,
Ah, Master Danyall of the Infinite Names, but perhaps the missive was
intended for the Sovereign's eyes only? Perhaps you and I are,
therefore, inadvertently (for my part, I cannot say for you), guilty
of espionnage against our beloved Crown. As you clearly have no qualms
about opening such missives, how say you, sir?
En Lyonel (who did not open the initial missive but was drawn by
Master D's apparent reply thereunto)
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 2, 2011, at 1:06 PM, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Nov 2011, Michelle Lindsey wrote:
>> Subject: [Ansteorra] (no subject)
> (and no lines of text)
>
> "No subject" ... you mean that you are not the subject of any person
> -- you are implying that we should overthrow the king and queen and
> abolish all royalty, and then the question of same-sex monarchs does
> not arise!
>
> Good lady, I wish I could but write as tersely, wittily, and
> thoughtfully as you.
>
> Denyel (alas, Napier's minimalist message "peccavi" didn't happen)
> de Lyncoln
> --
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org
>
------------------------------
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In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
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