[Ansteorra] Royalty - Same Sex Consorts
HerrDetlef
herrdetlef at gmail.com
Mon Oct 31 11:31:52 PDT 2011
The concerns of the rapier community MUST be taken seriously (okay, there
is your "must" right there). The rapier community is an integral part of
the Ansteorran experience, and I don't see rapier combat taking a six-month
hiatus while the kingdom had two kings and no queen. Ansteorra
simply wouldn't be Ansteorra without our rapier fighters.
Just musing this afternoon.....if we were to find outselves with two kings
on the throne, what would be the feasability of inviting all of the former
queens of Ansteorra to take part in the royal patronage of the rapier
community? All of the chivalry guard the Crown of Ansteorra while the
kingdom has no king; could not the Ladies of the Rose guard the rapier
community while the kingdom had no queen? Instead of a Queen's Champion,
that reign could see a Queens' Champion. But then, how would the oath of
fealty work? Who would wear the white scarf that is traditionally worn by
the Queen? Maybe the White Scarves of Ansteorra could make an oath of
fealty to the Crown and Kingdom, as always, but then the Crown could
ceremonially place the entire rapier community in the care of the Queens of
Ansteorra, who would represent the Crown in the stead of a sitting Queen.
And then a chosen representative of the Ladies of the Rose could wear the
white scarf that is part of the royal regalia. Any elevations to the WSA
could be attended, not only by the members of the order, but also by the
Ladies of the Rose, who would take an active part in the elevation ceremony.
These are just random thoughts. I have no idea what it means to be a WSA,
or any rapier combatant at all, for that matter. I don't have any clue if
my thoughts could even be feasible.
But the concerns of the rapier community MUST be taken seriously. They
extend far beyond the hypothesis of a knight whose persona is a Crusader
having to make an oath of fealty to a King whose persona is Islamic. A
situation like that would only involve two people. The possibility of a
two-kings/no-queen reign would involve a whole community. A community that
we would be sorely remiss to treat lightly.
Detlef
On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:02 PM, Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com> wrote:
> I can hold my position on the grounds that when the word "May" is used it
> quickly is turned to "Must". The argument that just because we allow it to
> happen somewhere else doesn't mean that it will happen here is a false
> argument.
> Pieter
>
> CAVE QUID DICIS,QUANDO,ET CUI
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 31, 2011, at 12:20 PM, Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > But recover it did. I was simply pointing out that I believe your
> > community is more resilient than you give it credit for.
> >
> > And incidentally, I do know something about that situation. If it was
> > just a safety issue (as someone else suggested) they wouldn't have
> > issued an exception for Lochac, which they did. Rapier activities were
> > still permitted in Lochac because it was important to the Princess on
> > the throne there, and she convinced the King that he was unlikely to
> > venture to Lochac and have his sensibilities offended by seeing rapier
> > activities.
> >
> > And you seem to be completely disregarding the entire second paragraph
> > of my response, which is that you can have your cake and not deny
> > others their cake. If Ansteorra wants to keep the opposite sex
> > requirement no one is stopping you! Corpora can change with Ansteorra
> > remaining the same. It is not in conflict. What I am asking is how is
> > it "fair" for the rapier community in Ansteorra to dictate who should
> > be sitting on the thrones in OTHER KINGDOMS?
> >
> > ~Eve
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
> wrote:
> >> You really have no idea what you are talking about do you? Yes a West
> crown banned rapier surfing their reign. They even called it a plague on
> the SCA. It took more that 6 months for their program to recover. It took
> quite a long time for it to recover.
> >>
> >> I am just simply pointing out the effect something like this could and
> would have on a community in the SCA. You seem to be running on a platform
> of being "fair" to one community but in doing so you are totally ok with
> removing the one who inspires another community and are telling us that we
> need to suck it up. I am sorry but no we do not.
> >>
> >> This whole thing as I see it looks like this. People join a soccer team
> don't want to be a goalie but want to use their hands, is it right for them
> to ask for a rule change? A few people join a Shakespeare company but would
> rather do musicals, is it fair to change the whole company for those few? A
> few muslim students enroll at a private catholic college and want all the
> crosses taken down because it offends them.
> >> In all these cases the people that joined knew the rules and situation
> going in. How is it fair to the people that were already playing by the
> rules, to have to change their game and everything they know of it for a
> few that want the rules to change for them?
> >>
> >> You ask why my desire to worship someone in a dress should come before
> someone else's desires? First I have been doing mine legally within the
> rules of the SCA for 20 years. You should be asking the same question with
> as much distain as you seem to have for me, my community and our desires to
> those who would look to change our laws and traditions. Second because it
> is my right to do so.
> >>
> >> Don Pieter Rausch
> >>
> >>
> >> CAVE QUID DICIS,QUANDO,ET CUI
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Oct 31, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Bree Flowers <evethejust at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> You are 100% correct. I do not understand how your desire to worship
> >>> someone in a dress should trump someone else's desire to fight for the
> >>> one who truly inspires them. In the West Kingdom there was once a
> >>> ruling pair that BANNED rapier. For an entire reign there was NO
> >>> RAPIER AT ALL. If their community could survive that, I'm sure yours
> >>> could survive an absent Queen for 6 months (on the off-chance it even
> >>> happens, which is pretty unlikely to be honest). Of course I also
> >>> don't understand why we all have to choose our rulers using a system
> >>> that clearly favors healthy, athletic men and the women that they
> >>> personally hand-pick, so there's a lot I don't understand.
> >>>
> >>> And the fact remains that the law change as currently proposed simply
> >>> removes the opposite sex consort REQUIREMENT from corpora. Individual
> >>> kingdoms can still choose to discriminate either in their laws, or
> >>> simply by having the crowns decide that any same-sex couple is
> >>> "unacceptable". Ansteorra can still have the requirement that at least
> >>> one member of the reigning couple wear skirts without preventing those
> >>> kingdoms that want to be progressive from having their wish.
> >>>
> >>> You can support this rule change and allow each Kingdom to decide what
> >>> is best for their people and their crowns. Ansteorra doesn't need to
> >>> change to allow other Kingdoms that option.
> >>>
> >>> ~Eve
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Oct 31, 2011 at 12:34 AM, Peter Wohlers <donpieter at aol.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> If you are asking this question then you truly do not understand the
> rapier community or the White Scarves of Ansteorra. The cult of Gloriana is
> at it's core a true love of our Queen. There is no streching creativity in
> that. We have a Queen and we are devout in our attention to her. Those of
> us who win baronial championships to try to give as much attention to the
> baroness of that group as we can and most try to make her feel like a Queen
> but in the end there is but one Queen of Ansteorra. Remove the community
> from the Quuen or the Queen from the community and a great loss will be
> felt in this kingdom.
> >>>> Don Pieter Rausch
> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the off chance that two men did happen to win, why couldn't your
> >>>>> persona worship the princess while they were on the thrones? And for
> >>>>> the couple of months between Coronation and Crown Tournament, how
> >>>>> about pledging your sword to a Baroness? Or enjoy some schtick where
> >>>>> you wait for the "one true Queen" to return? Our middle name here is
> >>>>> "Creative" after all, if the situation arises, use it as an
> >>>>> opportunity to stretch your creativity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ~Eve
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