[Ansteorra] Title Question

[Pat Mullins]

Henry V act iv scene iij
"Bedford and Exeter, Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester" York is not mentioned (possibly because he's going to die, not share in the glory...)

Paedric



________________________________
 From: HerrDetlef <herrdetlef at gmail.com>
To: "Kingdom of Ansteorra - SCA, Inc." <ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org> 
Sent: Tuesday, August 7, 2012 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra] Title Question
 
The first documentation in period that I can think of would be Henry's
Crispin Day speech in _Henry V_, in which he refers to certain peers of
England by merely the names of their titles (Exeter, York, Gloucester,
rather than the Duke of Exeter, the Duke of York, the Duke of Gloucester,
for example). If I had my copy of _The Riverside Shakespeare_ on hand, I
could cite chapter and verse for you. <SIGH>

Detlef again

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Aug 2012, Julie Cunningham <katheryn.cunningghame at gmail.**com<katheryn.cunningghame at gmail.com>
> >
> wrote:
>
>  What I was going to say before I hit send accidentally is perhaps
>> this would be a good short article for Stefan's Florilegium.
>>
>
> It would actually be a nice research article for heraldic proceedings
> and a letter from Laurel Sovereign of Arms.  Unfortunately, I can't
> think of a good way to research it, except by reading a large variety
> of period letters and documents.
>
> I believe that "Elfsea", "Lord Elfsea", and "Lady Elfsea"
> (for concrete examples) are all excellent period-style references.
> [1]  I really love this style.  "Baroness of Bjornsborg" and "Baron of
> Namron" are certainly period.
>
> I do know that the distinction of using or omitting "of" to denote
> the ordinal is a pure SCAism.  Because
>
> - it's not period
>
> - "founding baroness of Bryn Gwlad" or "first baron of Stargate"
>   (I like concrete examples) is much easier to understand and doesn't
>   even need explanation
>
> - "of" is an unstressed syllable that can be easy to miss
>   (c.f. "one small step for [a] man")
>
> I'd love to see the "of" business be replaced.
>
> I do not remember ever hearing "His Excellency Steppes" before.
> I would like to see period citations before it get adopted widely.
>
> Dankyn de Lincoln
>
> [1] I remember a Steppes Warlord where an entrant wrote "Llewelyn,
> Lord Elfsea" on his card.  I *loved* it.  Unfortunately, another field
> herald interpreted it as "Lastname, Lord Firstname" and kept calling
> him to the field as "Lord Elfsea Llewelyn".  That's not right.
>
> --
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
>
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Hƿæt! Ƿe Gardena       in geardagum,
þeodcyninga,       þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas       ellen fremedon.
Oft Scyld Scefing       sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum,       meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas.       Syððan ærest ƿearð
feasceaft funden,       he þæs frofre gebad,
ƿeox under ƿolcnum,       ƿeorðmyndum þah,
oðþæt him æghƿylc       þara ymbsittendra
ofer hronrade       hyran scolde,
gomban gyldan.       þæt ƿæs god cyning!
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