[Ansteorra] Participation vs. Recruitment

[Biatrichi Di Palermo]

The Black Star publishes what it has.  Any efforts to make it more local friendly have been met with lack of content.  I would welcome more content that is meaningful at all levels.

Biatrichi 
Kingdom Chronicler

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 24, 2012, at 1:27 PM, HerrDetlef <herrdetlef at gmail.com> wrote:

> Not so much analysis as raw data. Draw whatever conclusions you can.
> 
> Participation is indeed based on memberships. The problem is that only
> officers and weekend SCA'ers (who go to calendar events outside of their
> local groups) benefit from subscribing memberships. Exactly how do we
> encourage weekday SCA'ers who are not officers (who go almost exclusively
> only to events within their local groups) to subscribe? We can't exactly
> tack a non-member surcharge to weekday events, because the vast majority of
> them do not involve a site fee.
> 
> When I first subscribed as a member of the SCA, the sustaining membership
> included a subscription to *Tournaments Illuminated*. That quarterly was
> worth the price of membership itself. Without that subscription, a
> sustaining membership is little more than a qualification to hold office
> and a way to dodge a non-member surcharge. The information presented in a
> kingdom newsletter like *Black Star* benefits weekend SCA'ers and officers
> far more than it does weekday SCA'ers. There is not much incentive for a
> weekday SCA'er to become a subscribing member.
> 
> The price of a sustaining membership in the SCA--including the recent
> increases--is still far lower than the price of membership in most
> professional and academic organizations, but I doubt that many younger
> newcomers to the SCA can appreciate that fact. If we are able to encourage
> weekday SCA'ers to become subscribing members, local groups would be able
> to maintain their required membership numbers, and the generated revenue
> would allow increases in the price of membership to be lower than they have
> been in the recent past.
> 
> Again--how do we do that? Do we make subscribing memberships more
> beneficial to weekday SCA'ers, or do we find some means other than
> membership numbers alone to measure participation?
> 
> I'm only asking questions. I really don't have any answers. I wish I did.
> 
> Detlef
> 
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:11 AM, Sir Lyonel <sirlyonel at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Salut cozyns,
>> 
>> Based on my experiences as a former landed baron, Principality, and
>> Kingdom officer (none in Ansteorra), Herr Detlef's analysis--while
>> fascinating--I somewhat erroneous. Participation in the SCA is based on
>> memberships. My barony, which was spread across Idaho Falls, Pocatello,
>> Rexburg, and Blackfoot, used to see sixty total attendees at the three
>> weekly fighter practices, a hundred people at casual revels and small,
>> unadvertised (accept to the barony) local events, and massive turnouts
>> (from three hundred to over a thousand) at larger events. Yet our
>> membership dipped as low as thirty-five at one point in my baronial tenure.
>> Despite our holding the largest annual event in Artemisia ( Uprising), my
>> predecessor nearly lost baronial status due to slipping membership numbers.
>> 
>> What I've seen over the years is that we have three concurrent SCAs: the
>> members (some of whom are inactive for years at a time), the active local
>> players (some of whom rarely miss fighter practice and unofficial revels
>> but hardly ever show at an event or buy a membership), and the active
>> players (some of whom rarely make fighter practice and may let their
>> memberships lapse). All three groups, to some degree, feed the others. The
>> most active, effective (in their ability to grow, learn, and make money)
>> groups manage to synchronize these three groups more than most.
>> 
>> My barony was one of those effective groups, which we managed by
>> maintaining a simple set of priorities that some find distasteful:
>> 
>> (1) The group recruits constantly. That means every newcomer is treated
>> like royalty, and every immigrant from another group is treated like a
>> valuable resource.
>> 
>> (2) The stewards must be money conscious. I insisted that each event be
>> planned to make money--not necessarily a lot--just more than break-even.
>> (Caveat: that's for planning. If the plan occasionally fails--which it
>> will--the revenue from other events will cover the losses).
>> 
>> (3) Events have to be worth attending (yes, fun is a priority). This means
>> struggling to balance originality against tradition and often means
>> competition with other groups, but this priority bolsters priorities (1)
>> and (2).
>> 
>> (4) Education and authenticity aren't just for Medievalist geeks. So, yes,
>> you should make an effort in this direction. Always.
>> 
>> En Lyonel
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On Jan 24, 2012, at 9:00 AM, HerrDetlef <herrdetlef at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Time for Detlef to chime in...
>>> 
>>> I didn't go to my first calendar event until I had been in the SCA about
>>> two months. By that time, I had been to fighter practices, scribes' guild
>>> meetings, a newcomer's revel...my first event was in April, and my second
>>> event was in July...both in the local group where I was living. My third
>>> event also took place in Raven's Fort--a Crown Tourney in November. My
>>> first event outside of Raven's Fort was Hector and Rowan's Coronation in
>>> the Stargate in January 1988. SEVERAL fighter practices, populace
>> meetings,
>>> dance guilds, and scribe guilds had taken place in the meantime. Only in
>>> 1990 did I begin making a point to attend one calendar event a month, and
>>> that actually wore me out (I was still in college). After I graduated and
>>> moved to Austin, I was looking forward to getting involved with the
>> Barony
>>> of Bryn Gwlad, but the demanding schedule of graduate studies put a swift
>>> stop to that, and I wasn't even able to attend local events. For several
>>> years after that, I only made a point to attend Defender of the Fort in
>>> Raven's Fort every year, and even moving to Houston didn't result in my
>>> being able to play more than that. I simply added the occasional Stargate
>>> Yule revel to Defender in my own calendar, but more grad school made my
>>> ability to play during the week pretty negligible. Only lately have I
>> been
>>> able to attend calendar events regularly, but my weekday schedule wreaks
>>> havoc on my ability to attend local events. This schedule has also
>> affected
>>> my ability to hold local offices, since holding a local office requires
>>> attendance at local events in order to make that office available to the
>>> populace.
>>> 
>>> In the beginning, my ability to play SCA would have been seriously
>> limited
>>> had there been no local weekday events, and I've come around to the other
>>> extreme and only been able to play inasmuch as I can get to weekend
>> events.
>>> I'm actually grateful that the Society offers me that flexibility of
>>> involvement. Unfortunately, the numbers of who attends weekday events
>>> doesn't get near as much press as the numbers of who attends weekend
>>> events, so the decline in weekend attendees creates the illusion of a
>>> decline in SCA involvement in total.
>>> 
>>> The point? Oh, good grief, I don't know if there is a point. Maybe that
>> we
>>> should play up attendance at weekday events as much as we play up
>>> attendance at weekend events? I'm not sure. If anybody here can use my
>>> experience to illustrate a point, you're more than welcome. I just wanted
>>> you guys to see that opportunities for participation in the SCA are not
>>> one-size-fits-all.
>>> 
>>> Detlef
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 7:20 AM, Casey Weed <seoseaweed at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hosey, your position takes for granted that we share the same values but
>>>> you don't justify why that should be other than "because I think so".
>> As a
>>>> matter of fact, you unwittingly have proved a contrary case: your
>> position
>>>> is not the popular one.  For every 1 Kingdom level player there are 5
>> local
>>>> players... who are members and who are as interested in some aspect of
>> the
>>>> club as you are... they just express it differently and disagree with
>> your
>>>> value system.  Also, your position on local play is ignorant of the
>> data we
>>>> have: local play *does* generate kingdom play- I consulted on the
>> analysis
>>>> and I encourage everyone to read the report.  Not every local player
>> grows
>>>> into a kingdom player... but many do.  Farming involves planting and
>>>> watering and waiting.
>>>> 
>>>> I also think your argument wonts for some very specific answers:
>>>> 
>>>> How do we measure the health of the SCA?
>>>> 
>>>> I would submit that any metric that can be linked with extending the
>> life
>>>> of the club and insuring it's future that is in line with it's mission
>> and
>>>> vision statements is a viable way to measure the SCA's health.   Things
>>>> like:
>>>> 
>>>> Membership- raw paid numbers
>>>> Participation- in *any* organized activity that falls within the scope
>> of
>>>> the club's stated purpose
>>>> Scholastic Advancement of Knowledge
>>>> Public Awareness of what we do
>>>> Fun had by participants/members
>>>> 
>>>> Note: Number of events is NOT on this list nor is hosting big events.
>> Why?
>>>> Because those are byproducts of the more core metrics.  If events are
>> fun
>>>> and hold the interest of more members they will naturally participate in
>>>> that particular type of activity.  But, if members don't hold your
>>>> particular values (that fighting at events is the end all/be all... that
>>>> War X is the reason we are in this club... [insert another "me and my
>>>> personal brand of fun" answer]) then perhaps some rethinking is in
>> order.
>>>> We can encourage those things, but tide of public opinion is clearly out
>>>> on this issue: more people are into "their thing" in this club than are
>>>> interested in "the Big Event".  So whose value system is more important,
>>>> Hosey?  Who should be steering this ship- the one or the five?
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not advocating lower participation at events; I'd love to see larger
>>>> events.  (although I do subscribe to the tenet that quality is far more
>>>> important than quantity) However, the times have changed and the sooner
>>>> people like you and I acknowledge that we are the *minority*, the
>> sooner we
>>>> can start using the real data to our advantage.  I want to see more
>>>> authentic tournaments in the SCA; it's easier to recruit local players;
>> I
>>>> find ways to make the latter fact facilitate the former.  For the
>> Kingdom
>>>> Player disdain for local play/local players is shortsighted at best;
>>>> foolish and selfish, at worst.
>>>> 
>>>> There are also consequences for holding on to an antiquated/unpopular
>> value
>>>> system... but that's food for another thread.
>>>> 
>>>> Ritter Dieterich
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 4:41 AM, Cionaodh O'Hosey <
>>>> CionaodhOHosey at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> So expecting a person to show up and play on game day is what prevents
>> us
>>>>> from getting people to play, because going to events is just too
>>>> difficult.
>>>>> I agree that going to events is difficult which is why I say the local
>>>>> activities should be focused more on getting people to events. Part of
>>>>> getting them to events is helping them to get there. I am not trying to
>>>> put
>>>>> no value on the work done on a local level, i am just saying the work
>>>> done
>>>>> on a local level should be focused on getting people to events. A well
>>>>> attended fighter practice that sends no one to tourney is just a local
>>>>> fight club claiming ties to the SCA. The measure of a successful
>> fighter
>>>>> practice should be not how many fighters attend it but rather how many
>> of
>>>>> it's fighters go to tourney or war. The measure of a successful group
>>>>> should not be the number of people that group has at populace each
>> month
>>>>> but rather the number of people that group has at events that month. It
>>>>> doesn't matter to the Kingdom when five hundred of my closest friends
>> get
>>>>> together in garb in my back yard, it only matters to the rest of the
>>>>> Kingdom when they show up at an event or host an event for the rest of
>>>> the
>>>>> Kingdom.
>>>>> 
>>>>> What I am trying to point out is that there is a difference between
>>>>> "increasing our number of local players" and "increasing the number of
>>>>> people playing locally". Increasing the number of people playing
>> locally
>>>>> does not lead to more people going to events if your activities are not
>>>>> focused towards getting them to events. In fact just the opposite, if
>>>> they
>>>>> can play locally a lot of people will chose to stay home and play
>> locally
>>>>> rather than go to the expense and trouble of traveling to an event.
>>>> Fighter
>>>>> practice is a great example, we have i am told hundreds of authorized
>>>>> fighters in this Kingdom, but most at most Tourneys we are lucky to
>> have
>>>>> thirty show up, and less than a hundred bother to show up and fight in
>>>> one
>>>>> tourney in a year. So all of that activity at the local level is
>>>> producing
>>>>> very little in the way of event attendance. At the last event held by
>> our
>>>>> group had all of the locals with paid memberships in our group showed
>> up
>>>>> there would have been no room for any one else from the Kingdom, so
>> what
>>>>> happened? We had plenty of room. So more people "playing locally" does
>>>> not
>>>>> mean more people going to events, even local events. In fact fewer
>> local
>>>>> activities could mean more event attendance, we all have only so much
>>>> time
>>>>> we can spend on SCA activities, if we spent less of our SCA time on
>> local
>>>>> activities it would leaves us more of our SCA time for going to events,
>>>> but
>>>>> if you are going to four different guild meetings a week by Saturday
>> all
>>>>> you want to do is get away from the SCA.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In short, and not meaning to be cruel, our time and resources should be
>>>>> invested in developing players who can and will go to events. That will
>>>> be
>>>>> more productive in the long run than trying to make the SCA available
>>>>> locally for those who can not or will not go to events. For instance I
>>>> have
>>>>> only a limited amount of time to train fighters for war, should i spend
>>>> it
>>>>> working with people who can and will go to Gulf War or should i spend
>> it
>>>>> with people who can not or will not go to Gulf War?  The answer is
>>>> obvious,
>>>>> if a little cold hearted.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cionaodh O'Hosey
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Jan 24, 2012, at 12:21 AM, Jeffrey Clark wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> This forms the crux of my original point. The focus on THE ONE EVENT is
>>>>>> counter to our ability to get new people into the SCA. With modern
>>>>>> schedules the way they are, in these economic times -- and especially
>>>>>> speaking of younger people (under 35?) -- you MUST understand that
>> even
>>>>>> four events a year can be difficult.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lord O'Hosey, I'm a junior in college -- I sit in class in Fridays
>> until
>>>>>> four in the afternoons, I also work for a church -- which means that I
>>>> have
>>>>>> to be at work awake and alert (not tired, drunk, or hung over) at 7am
>>>> every
>>>>>> Sunday morning. I will do well to make three events this year, I
>>>> probably
>>>>>> won't realistically make more than two -- I have neither the time nor
>>>> the
>>>>>> money to travel that much; nor do most of my friends. Should I just
>> not
>>>>>> participate at all in the SCA since I'm not willing to lead others by
>>>>>> attending more events? Should I stop trying to get some of my friends
>> to
>>>>>> join since I can't (sorry, won't) go to more events? Shod my friends
>> not
>>>>>> bother joining because they can't make that many events either?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I agree with Lord Casey's response that increasing our number of local
>>>>>> players will cause more people to attend events, and I restate my
>>>> assertion
>>>>>> that we need more activities on the baronial, canton, and shire level.
>>>> We
>>>>>> need to be more social in our own baronies and get to know each other
>>>>>> locally beyond the guys you see at fighter practice and the weaving
>>>> guild.
>>>>>> We need to get together in garb (or garb optional) and just hold
>>>>>> mini-revels, no classes or fighting. That will give us a good place to
>>>>>> bring newcomers that isn't overwhelming and allows them to talk to
>>>> people
>>>>>> and get a sense of what's going on. It also gives the more veteran
>>>> members
>>>>>> a chance to wheel and deal and for intrigue to happen across the
>>>>>> established groups and guilds. It allows networking and helps
>>>> like-minded
>>>>>> people find each other where they otherwise wouldn't.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Stronger local groups would make for a stronger kingdom by providing
>>>>>> members with more opportunities to get involved and re reasons and
>>>> support
>>>>>> to make it to the big events; as well as motivation and reason to keep
>>>>>> playing in the downtime between the events they can go to -- whether
>>>> those
>>>>>> events are weeks, months, or years apart.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- Alessandro Zorzi
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jan 23, 2012, at 16:36, Cionaodh O'Hosey <
>> CionaodhOHosey at verizon.net
>>>>> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> There is a lot of discussion about recruitment on this list, i hope
>>>> this
>>>>>>> is because we want more people to participate in our events. We can
>>>> also
>>>>>>> increase the participation at our events if we all participate more
>>>> often
>>>>>>> ourselves. For example lets say we have 48 events a year, and our
>> goal
>>>> is
>>>>>>> 200 active players people at each event then the following things are
>>>> true:
>>>>>>> If we all go to every event then we only need 200 people total to
>> meet
>>>> our
>>>>>>> goal. If we all go to two events a month then we need 400 active
>>>> players.
>>>>>>> If we all go to an event just once a month then the we need 800
>> active
>>>>>>> players. If we all go to just three events every four months, that's
>>>> just
>>>>>>> nine events a year, then we need 1066 people, that is also the
>> minimum
>>>>>>> number of events a person needs to attend to save enough on
>> non-member
>>>>>>> event fees to break even on a sustaining membership. If we all only
>>>> show up
>>>>>>> once every two months, six times a year, we need 1600 active players.
>>>> If we
>>>>>>> all go to an event once every
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> quarter, four times a year, then we need 2400 active players. If we
>> all
>>>>>> go to an event twice a year then we need 4800 active players. Lastly
>> if
>>>> we
>>>>>> all go to an event once a year then we need 9600 active players.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It becomes immediately apparent that the fewer events we all go to
>> the
>>>>>>> more people we need to successfully recruit to meet our goal. But
>> lets
>>>> also
>>>>>>> be honest, the fewer events you go to the harder time you are going
>> to
>>>> have
>>>>>>> getting new people to go to more events. If it is not worth your time
>>>> to go
>>>>>>> to an event why would a new person, who looks up to you as an
>>>> experienced
>>>>>>> player, want to go to that event? It is a simple matter of
>> leadership,
>>>> you
>>>>>>> cannot recruit people to do what you don't do.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cionaodh O'Hosey
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Hwæt! We Gardena         in geardagum,
>>> þeodcyninga,         þrym gefrunon,
>>> hu ða æþelingas         ellen fremedon.
>>> Oft Scyld Scefing         sceaþena þreatum,
>>> monegum mægþum,         meodosetla ofteah,
>>> egsode eorlas.         Syððan ærest wearð
>>> feasceaft funden,         he þæs frofre gebad,
>>> weox under wolcnum,         weorðmyndum þah,
>>> oðþæt him æghwylc         þara ymbsittendra
>>> ofer hronrade         hyran scolde,
>>> gomban gyldan.         þæt wæs god cyning!
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Hwæt! We Gardena         in geardagum,
> þeodcyninga,         þrym gefrunon,
> hu ða æþelingas         ellen fremedon.
> Oft Scyld Scefing         sceaþena þreatum,
> monegum mægþum,         meodosetla ofteah,
> egsode eorlas.         Syððan ærest wearð
> feasceaft funden,         he þæs frofre gebad,
> weox under wolcnum,         weorðmyndum þah,
> oðþæt him æghwylc         þara ymbsittendra
> ofer hronrade         hyran scolde,
> gomban gyldan.         þæt wæs god cyning!
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra mailing list
> Ansteorra at lists.ansteorra.org
> In order to make changes and manage your account please go to:
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-ansteorra.org