[Ansteorra] Umbrage and Same Sex Consorts

Christie Ward val_org at hotmail.com
Fri Jul 20 17:53:58 PDT 2012

I'm responding to Miles Grey, with attempts to snip where possible and still maintain the thread so it can be understood.

On 7/20/2012 2:42 PM, Christie Ward wrote:
>> I think it's telling that the people most squicked out 
>> about gay people in general are the ones hollering 
>> loudest to halt the discussion.

Miles responded:
> Obviously, you don't know me.

I answer:
I named no names. I won't speculate on your motives.

Miles said:
> See.  When we disagree, we're accused of unbridled 
> bigotry and hostility.

I answer:
I should elaborate to explain that I am including discussions here on the Ansteorra list, on the Bjornsborg list, and elsewhere.

Disagreement would be saying that you don't like the idea and wish it not to be implemented. However, I have specifically seen pointed comments that state, for example, that if same-sex consorts were allowed in Crown Tourney that the SCA would then have a problem with child predators. I only wish I were making that up. I'll also say that I have been flamed off-list and have booted such people from my friends lists and blocked their emails. 

I'm fine with disagreement, but I am not fine if a debater cannot acknowledge that my opinions are also valid, and that my wounds are just as hurtful as theirs. 

I'm okay if someone disagrees with me, but I am not fine if that person is using lies to justify their opinion. Cf. the claim that gay men are automatically child predators.

One is always entitled to his or her own opinion, but one is not entitled to his or her own untrue "facts". One of these is the claim that there were never any historical same-sex ruling pairs that keeps being repeated, despite historical documentation to the contrary. Some of the documentation may be found at https://www.facebook.com/groups/InspriationalEquality/doc/212994575413837/

Miles said:
> Please look up the definition of bigotry and 
> realize that your refusal to accept an 
> opinion that differs from yours on this 
> issue is also bigotry.

I answer:
Um, no. Bigotry involves prejudice and intolerance. Every gay person in the SCA tolerates heterosexuals. Heck, every gay person in America must, because queers are in fact a minority.

A lot of bigotry goes unnoticed by its practitioners because they have privilege. In the instant case, heterosexual privilege (http://sap.mit.edu/content/pdf/heterosexual_privilege.pdf). A privileged person rarely is aware of the challenges and obstacles that the non-privileged endure.

On 7/20/2012 2:42 PM, Christie Ward wrote:
>> If we replace every occurrence of "same sex" 
>> or "gay" in this thread with "black" or 
>> "African American", we'd all (I hope all!) 
>> be appalled at the insensitivity and level 
>> of hatred being shown.

Miles responded:
> If you were to draw that equivalence in a 
> group that had a higher percentage of black 
> people in it, particularly black people just 
> a couple years older than me, you'd learn 
> what hostility - and probably very strong 
> anger - is really like.  There isn't the 
> slightest comparison.

I respond: 
Civil rights icon John Lewis wrote in 2003, "I have fought too hard and too long against discrimination based on race and color not to stand up against discrimination based on sexual orientation. I’ve heard the reasons for opposing civil marriage for same-sex couples. Cut through the distractions, and they stink of the same fear, hatred, and intolerance I have known in racism and in bigotry." (http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2003/10/25/at_a_crossroads_on_gay_unions/)

Another civil rights icon, Julian Bond, said in a 2008 interview, "Black people, of all people, should not oppose equality. It does not matter the rationale – religious, cultural, pseudo-scientific. No people of good will should oppose marriage equality. And they should not think civil unions are a substitute. At best, civil unions are separate but equal. And we all know separate is never equal."  Bond went on to say that the connection between the black civil rights movement and its gay counterpart was the immutable characteristics of the individuals involved. "You are what you are," he said, "and you cannot be discriminated against in this country for what you are." (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Exu6dG1E_Q)

The whole issue of inspirational equality is an issue of SCA civil rights. It's an issue of equality. It's an issue of equal treatment under Corpora. No one is asking for special rights. No one is asking for any kind of special favors. We are asking for, and expecting, to be extended the same rights and responsibilities that heterosexual couples enjoy in regards to participation in Crown Tournament.


Miles also said:
> (In fact, this is not a closed list.  
> May I be allowed to forward this 
> to my black friends?)

Forward wherever you like. I said what I mean, and I mean what I say.


On 7/20/2012 2:42 PM, Christie Ward wrote:
>> I understand and realize that there are 
>> a lot of people who have not evolved 
>> enough personally to be copacetic with 
>> queers.

To which Miles replied:
> Worse, you do so using a term which, if 
> I used it, would result in me being 
> excoriated for being offensive.  Does 
> that mean it is now officially approved 
> for me to use the word "queers" to refer 
> to gays and lesbians? 

Queer Nation re-appropriated the term "queer" in 1990, and coined the phrase "We're here, we're queer, get used to it!" Academia has Queer Studies, Queer Theory, and even Queer Theology.

Currently, the word "queer" also used by members of the LGBT community as a way to identify ourselves and is seen as an accepted label—one that is open, fluid, and all-encompassing. Many people who choose to identify as queer do so because they feel it allows for a broader identity as opposed to the more perceived rigid labels of bisexual, gay, lesbian, and transgender. Many members of the LGBT community believe that there is great power in reclaiming a word such as queer. As with other marginalized communities, words that were once used as insults lose their power when used in a positive way by the persons whom they were meant to degrade.


Miles asked:
> Do you indeed fight in the heavy lists?  
> Were you planning to enter Crown Tourney?

You must have missed it when I mentioned earlier that I specifically asked Daffyd and Octavia to allow me to fight for my lady in Crown Tournament during their reign. I have been a chivalric fighter for years.  And yes, if same sex consorts are allowed, I will get my hiney back in shape so I can come out and fight for my lady.


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