ARCH - Ranking System

[Bob Dewart]

Let me tell you an old archer story before I get going here.  A few years
back while shooting the IKCAC I got into a bad habit.  If I didn't do well
on the Underhand round, I wouldn't finish the score.   Then, if I didn't do
well on the Archery's Choice I wouldn't finish the score.  I finally got a
really good underhand round and a pretty good archer's choice.  But because
I had not been shooting the pavise round too, I blew the score.



I'm very positive.  I'm positive to get a ranking *or* an achievment you'll
have to shoot for score.  I'm also positive that if folks aren't going to
shoot for score, for what ever reason, then we don't need it.  We can call
it whatever we want to.  The fact remains, no scoring, no awarding of what
ever we call the whatsits.

Unless the achievement levels are all equal to each other you have just
created another ranking  system.  As  soon as you keep a score, you have a
ranking system.  Recording the averages of the RR establishes a ranking
system.   If the score doesn't matter, don't keep track of it.

What is wrong with a ranking system?


-----Original Message-----
From: Eadric Anstapa <smills at barley.scabrewer.com>
To: ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org <ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org>
Date: Friday, July 14, 2000 4:17 PM
Subject: Re: ARCH - Ranking System


>Bob Dewart <gilli at seacove.net> said:
>
>> Does it really mater if we use the names from 95 or
>> not?  If I'm not mistaken, here at the half way in the
>> season point, I'm the only one in the
>> Kingdom that has shot enough to have a rating.  I have
>> 3 Period and 4 Open scores.
>>
>> Are more folks going to shoot for score?  Or can we put
>> this back on the
>> shelf for another 5 years?
>>
>> Deeds not words folks.
>
>
>Can we try to stay positive here and not say pessimistic
>things like "Does it really matter"?  I think is would be
>better to encourage people to shoot rather than berate
>them for not shooting or to be pessimistic because only
>one person has submitted enough scores so far for an
>complete average.
>
>Lets face it many people have no desire to compete and as
>strange as it may seem some don't even have a desire to
>keep score.  Some people are too intimidated to shoot for
>score or to compete

Then all these scoring things aren't for them.  That's a "just the way it is
thing".  That's the way it is in any of the activities we do.  And that's
OK.

and sometimes it seems like that the
>feeling in this forum is that if you are not going to
>compete in the IKAC/IKCAC or participate as a combat
>archer in the wars then you are not really needed or
>wanted.

That's not the case at all.  However, I think a very *big* point has been
missed.  If he's that up on it, what is there to be so up about?

I have also read and heard comments like "I
>didn't help the kingdom average"  or "No need to submit
>the scores because it wouldn't help the kingdom
>average".

I've said that many times myself about my own scores.  In fact I shot 3
scores last weekend that didn't help at all.  But this also tells me that
they don't know how the system works.  Nor do they understand it.  It's very
simple.  The more times you shoot for score the better your chances of
getting a good score.  Some days things just work better than others.  On
many occasions I've shot a 200+ one day then  about 140 the next and vise
versa.


This is entirely too much emphasis on
>IKAC/IKCAC.  Personally, I feel we need to promote
>personal achievements.  I have personal goals set because
>they are meaningful for me and will help me enjoy this
>game more.  I hope that in meeting my goals I can help
>other people enjoy the game a bit more also.
>
>As bizarre as this sounds, perhaps the best archer in our
>canton won't even keep score.  He comes out at shoots at
>most practices and shoots a LOT when he does show up but
>he wont keep score.  I watched him closely last weekend
>and I think he might have a 60 Roryal Round average if we
>kept score.  Score or not we want him to continue to show
>up and enjoy himself and share our fellowship.  His goals
>for archery are different than my own

I don't want to sound cold here; but, until someone shoots in some manner in
which their performance may be judge in some fashion to be superior, then
they aren't.  Punching holes in paper is great fun and I do it alot of it
myself.  But without a score of some kind, there's no way to measure my
performance against what I did yesterday or against what I'll do tomarrow or
against someone in Caid.

>
>Let me say that I am against calling what we hare trying
>to put in place a "Ranking" system.

We aren't trying to put anything in place.  Mistress Asyln did that when she
was Kingdom Archery Marshal.  What we're trying to do is decide if we want
to use it or not.


I don't like the
>idea that someone should feel out-ranked or that because
>someone is a "Marksman" and another a "Bowman" that
>someone should feel that the Marksman should be in charge
>or have precedence at the range.

I don't know what to do.  Someone is always in charge at a range, ALWAYS.
Some one is always in charge of a list field.  Some one is always in charge
of any sponsored activity.  If someone does like having someone else in
charge then they basically have three options; 1) be that person in charge,
2) live with it and participate, 3) don't  be there.

>
>If we attach names to the various levels I would prefer
>to call this an "Achievement" system.  I thought this was
>also the concensus of those gathered at Gilli's on July 1.

That must have happened while I was pulling the briskets out of the grills.
>
>The whole purpose of an achievement system is to
>encourage people to shoot and to encourage them in a
>positive manner.  The purpose should not be to rank
>individuals against one another (but I realize despite
>better intentions it will happen anyway).

Is it just me, the other Kingdoms don't seem to have a problem with a
ranking system.  Each may have a slightly different scoreing break, but they
are all the basic same thing.
Except us.  Why is that?

There is no way we will make everyone happy, just won't happen.  I'm for
using the system as is.  I don't think I'll be the only one by the end of
the season with a ranking.   But if I am, I'll display it
proudly...someplace.

>
>If a person sees that their average is just a few points
>shy of the next achievement level, then that is positive
>encouragement for them to shoot a little more and work
>just a little harder to reach that next level.  When they
>do, someone once again gives some positive reinforcement
>by presenting them with appropriate tassels for them to
>display.
>
>With or without a system of defined achievement levels in
>place Iaen and I will have Royal Round averages on the
>web next week.  For those who have not yet submitted
>three scores their current average will be posted but
>will be marked as incomplete.  Once we get this going and
>scores are being submitted regularly we will stop posting
>the incomplete averages.
>
>Marshals, if you have been in charge of any shoot this
>calendar year and still have records for Royal Rounds
>scores that Iaen does not have please email then to him
>ASAP.
>
>In Service,
>
>Eadric
>

Gilli


>
>
>
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