[Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

Tue May 28 10:33:03 PDT 2002

One motor will only give you one axis of travel forward and reverse. If you
want to traverse the field on more than one axis you will need two motors.
It would not be difficult to set this up and would add a certain amount of
reality to the game as animals very seldom move in a straight line. Using a
wagon type rig we could actually move a 3d target and have it change
directions as a real animal might. Will you be at the next bowyers and
fletchers guild meeting next week? I we could hash out some ideas then and
look over a few drawings. Set our design criteria and then see how soon we
want to start working on it.
Iames

-----Original Message-----
From: Ruff, David [mailto:David.Ruff at valueoptions.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 12:09 PM
To: 'ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org'
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

Would not be two motors - its done with one motor, that's how we did it...
The drive would come by wrapping the line around the drive several times to
create friction. The motor is reversible by reversing polarity. The hardest
part of this would be in the design of the guy poles to allow the target
attachment point to pass over/thru the wheels - but taking a look at a
common ski lift setup would be the same - just smaller. Total weight of the
target would be under 5 pounds I would think... the other thing you can do
in regards to a sled is get kids rail sleds - the old fashion ones OR a
wagon and attach it to a motor for advance or retreat action, this setup
with a foam target would not even phase a ford starter motor.

Ulrich of Carolingia

-----Original Message-----
From: Cleek, James M. [mailto:James.M.Cleek at abc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 11:39 AM
To: 'ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org'
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

I could see this being done. I like the idea of having two axis of movement.
Doable but a little tricky. If the motors are not synchronous you will
either drop the target or rip down your guy poles. There is a camera system
used for sporting events that operates like this. By varying the speed of
the two motors on the cable system you are able to achieve three axis of
movement. One way to do this might be to have the end points of one axis run
through the field and then another set of cables running around the field to
achieve this with out the syncro problems. There would still be a few
tension problems to over come.

One more thing to remember is that starter motors are typically not variable
or are they reversible. I remember too many stories about boats getting the
wrong starter and then sucking water through the exhaust into the engine
when they tried to start them. They also have a very low duty cycle.

I would be happy to help design such a system.

Iames

-----Original Message-----
From: Ruff, David [mailto:David.Ruff at valueoptions.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:42 AM
To: 'ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org'
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

About 10 years ago I used to compete in R/C glider competitions. We got the
gliders to altitude via Ford starters on a winch setup. Some of these
gliders would weigh 25+ pounds, the normal launch was full power at a 45
degree plus climb to 500 feet. Not sure of the actual "pull" needed to lift
that weight that fast to that altitude but it would rip wings off on
fiberglass composite gliders if done wrong. My thought is to use the same
type of setup in a box for easy carrying and do a line setup to move a foam
broad head stopper target on a line setup much like a ski lift. It would be
light, would move as fast as the operator wants (pedal drive) and be
reasonable to set up in the course the marshal wants.... The problems - the
safe zone/over shoot area required.... Arrow loss due to misses and possible
skip off the edges of the target (see safe zone). Other then that it would
be neat to have a line that can move toward, away from and side to side of
you. The foam can be cut into knights, animals ect ect to simulate a charge
or retreat....

Ulrich of Carolingia

-----Original Message-----
From: Cleek, James M. [mailto:James.M.Cleek at abc.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:20 AM
To: 'ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org'
Subject: RE: [Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

The rig would be fairly easy to build. The power required to move the target
would be the hard part. The coursers are only moving a plastic bag or rag to
attract the dogs attention. We would need to look in to making the sleds as
light as possible, making some very slick runners for the sleds and then
look at how much power would be needed to move that sled loaded with target
and back stop at the required speed. Next we would have to answer a few
questions. Do we want a variable speed. and how fast should that respond? We
would then need a pulley system and some very large Stakes to set the
pulleys for the system. If you have trees handy you could use those to set
the pulleys. It is not hard system to build but because of the masses and
forces required it would have to be much larger to be reliable.

On a different note I am sorry I did not get to spend more than a couple of
minutes at the range. My security duties at this event kept me from doing
many of the things I would normally make time to do.

We are currently make plans to go to the Dragons fire Tor's Defender who
else is going and will there be Archery there?

Iames

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Dewart [mailto:gilli at seacove.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 10:04 AM
To: ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

You know, right behind us, they were doing coursing.  I don't think I'd seen
that before.

If we could rig up something like that, perhaps not as fast, I think that
would be great.

Gilli
----- Original Message -----
From: <jspinks at ix.netcom.com>
To: <SCA-Archery at yahoogroups.com>
Cc: <ansteorra-archery at ansteorra.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2002 9:48 AM
Subject: [Ansteorra-archery] Moving Targets

We just had a double elimination tournament for Baronial Steppes Archer here
in Ansteorra.  The semifinal and final rounds included a deer and bear
target mounted on a plywood sled that was pulled toward or away from the
firing line using a rope and pulley arrangement.   Archers on the line had
the time it took the sled to travel between 10-20 and 40 yds at an angle in
order to "make the kill".  We did use the scoring lines on the target for
competition purposes but can see other fun potential as well.  In some
cases, the Baron and Baroness would have gone without venison or would have
had to sacrifice the archers for their own safety since the bear was
charging.  A spotting glass could also be used to stop the competition in
the future once a "kill" was made.  Several additional potential ideas have
been thrown out using smaller targets as well.

My question is what other ideas are out there for moving targets- especially
period style?  This competition has sparked quite a bit of interest in the
idea of moving target archery and I was wondering if anyone else had other
ideas for moving TARGET archery with real arrows.  Have already had several
suggestions involving spinning bicycle wheels, remote control toy cars to
golf carts and would hear more ideas on this to stock my arsenal for future
competitions.

Jacques the Spink
Steppes Archery Marshall
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