[Ansteorra-archery] Re: [SCA-Chirurgeon] Forward from the Merry Rose (Atlantia) on recent combat arrow issue
Richard Threlkeld
rjt at acm.org
Mon Jul 28 11:01:33 PDT 2003
I would like to extend my sympathies on your injury. Ours is a martial art with risk of injury, but one never wants to have that risk materialize in a serious injury to anyone.
The tone of your message, however, seems to say that archery should not be allowed because of the danger of something similar to your incident happening. I would have to say that your taking your helm off while only 40-50 feet from the action with projectiles is the proximate cause of the problem. Our bows and crossbows are intended to shoot 40-50 yards and still hit with noticable force. When we have melees with archery, we require the marshals to wear goggles and gorgets to protect themselves and we arrange the allowable field of fire to have all unprotected viewers at an angle to any allowable targeting and at least 40-50 yards away even then.
The archery community has put APDs on their arrows and really tried very hard to make what they do safe for all. And we have had many fewer serious injuries than purely chivalric fighting.
As to the increasing power of the bows used: in my Kingdom we have not had any increase. In some Kingdoms, the heavy fighters have said the would only count arrows which hit them with the same force as a sword. They actually measured with these fighters and discovered it took about twice the power we were using, so some Kingdoms now allow over 1000 inch pound crossbows, for instance, where we only allow 600 inch pounds or 72 pounds overall, whichever is less. This increase was brought on by the fighters getting hit, however, not by the archers who now have to pull a heavier bow.
Again, I am very, very sorry to hear of your injury and wish I could have done something to prevent it. But this is a martial art which has its risks which we have done much to reduce. And removing your helm close to the battle increased your risks substantially.
In service,
Caelin on Andrede
Kingdom Chirurgeon, Ansteorra
Chivalric fighter, rapier fighter, archer
Marshal for all the above
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "artefiction" <caitlin at phosphor-ink.com>
Reply-To: SCA-Chirurgeon at yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2003 16:27:15 -0000
><html><body>
>
>
><tt>
><BR>
>July 23, 2003<BR>
><BR>
> Greetings all.<BR>
><BR>
> This is a follow up report on the combat arrow that hit <BR>
>Sgt.<BR>
>Istvan Toth on June 7th, 2003 at North Oaken War Maneuvers. I know <BR>
>a lot<BR>
>about this since I am Istvan Toth.<BR>
><BR>
> To sum up...I was standing in the backfield of a bridge <BR>
>battle<BR>
>at the latter part of the day. My best guess is that I was 40 to 50 <BR>
>feet<BR>
>from one end of the bridge, at about 45° from one corner. I am<BR>
>not <BR>
>sure<BR>
>how long the bridge was...by the way...if anybody has a different <BR>
>idea of<BR>
>these distances please step forward, I was not measuring distance - I <BR>
>was<BR>
>watching somebody pull victims off of the bridge with a great axe.<BR>
><BR>
> I was not wearing my helm as I was in the process of <BR>
>quitting<BR>
>the field and thought I was at a safe distance.<BR>
><BR>
> According to Eric Ericson the Scout, the arrow that hit me<BR>
>missed all intervening participants and struck me square in the right <BR>
>eye.<BR>
>I was checked by Eric Ericson (who is also an EMT basic) on site. <BR>
>Then I<BR>
>was taken to the Cleveland Medical Center where a CAT scan showed a<BR>
>fracture to the right orbit floor (below the eye, also called <BR>
>a "blowout")<BR>
>and of the maxillary sinus with much nasty swelling and soft tissue<BR>
>damage.<BR>
><BR>
> On June 12, 2003 I saw an ENT (Dr. Agostino) the delay <BR>
>being<BR>
>that the swelling had to go down to a point where an examination <BR>
>could be<BR>
>done. Other than the bones healing perhaps 1/8" off things looked <BR>
>good and<BR>
>I could have had surgery for that had I wished but I preferred not to <BR>
>if it<BR>
>was not absolutely necessary. Dr. Agostino and later Dr. Gabrielle,<BR>
>Ophthalmologist, (seen on June 24th) both said that if any blurring <BR>
>of<BR>
>vision or other vision irregularities showed up, to immediately have <BR>
>myself<BR>
>seen. They said the bones should heal in about 6 weeks. The<BR>
>ophthalmologist saw no obvious retinal damage at the time.<BR>
><BR>
> On July 12 I attended Warriors & Warlords. The concern <BR>
>was an<BR>
>aggravation of the fractures. I experienced no ill effects and <BR>
>fought very<BR>
>well.<BR>
><BR>
> On July 14, while driving to the dentist, the vision in my<BR>
>right eye went blurry. I made an appointment the next day for Wed. <BR>
>July<BR>
>16th. The ophthalmologist said he thought it was retinal detachment <BR>
>and<BR>
>immediately made an appt. with Dr. Lee, a retina & vitreous <BR>
>specialist.<BR>
>On Thursday morning Dr. Lee did a special examination to determine the<BR>
>extent of the injury etc. and scheduled surgery for Friday. The <BR>
>retinal<BR>
>detachment was 50%. I was rushed into surgery (look it up and <BR>
>cringe -<BR>
>you have to be awake for this folks!). The surgery was actually three<BR>
>procedures, a Vitrectomy, Pneumatic Retinopexy, and the application <BR>
>of a<BR>
>Scleral Buckle. In layman's terms the eye was drained and a gas <BR>
>bubble put<BR>
>in, a silicon "scleral buckle" was placed around the eyeball to remain<BR>
>there permanently, and using lasers etc. the scar tissue and tears <BR>
>were<BR>
>repaired.<BR>
><BR>
> At this time, 5 days post-op, there is no way of telling <BR>
>how<BR>
>things will go but generally they look good. However, the Dr. was <BR>
>clear in<BR>
>letting me know that my sight in the eye will not be what it was and <BR>
>there<BR>
>is no knowing how much sight I will get back. There is a chance of<BR>
>re-detachment among other things.<BR>
><BR>
> I am off work for a month and have to maintain a face-down<BR>
>position for two weeks post-op. It will be 3 to 6 months before <BR>
>anything<BR>
>can be determined as to what amount of sight I'll have, etc. It has <BR>
>been<BR>
>mentioned that I may not be able to fight again...I'll cross that <BR>
>bridge<BR>
>when I come to it.<BR>
><BR>
> Did my fighting at Warriors and Warlords cause this? I <BR>
>think<BR>
>that, at most, it accelerated it. Apparently a little bleeding in <BR>
>the eye<BR>
>from an injury can be absorbed by the eye, but a lot of bleeding <BR>
>causes<BR>
>problems that can eventually lead to retinal detachment. After the <BR>
>injury<BR>
>I had a lot of blood in my eye. Whether I fought at Warriors and <BR>
>Warlords<BR>
>or two weeks later at Simple Day, or at Pennsic, the retinal <BR>
>detachment<BR>
>would have happened sooner or later as a result of the original impact<BR>
>injury.<BR>
><BR>
> The power and construction of combat arrows has increased<BR>
>greatly to get people to acknowledge them, but they are blunts and it <BR>
>will<BR>
>always be a problem - that is why real arrows have points! Arrows <BR>
>were used<BR>
>in real war to really kill - not in the tournament style melee that <BR>
>we do.<BR>
>This could have happened to any marshal or non-combatant near the <BR>
>field<BR>
>(non-combatant could be a royal observer, you know).<BR>
><BR>
> If I can fight again I will steer clear of the melee <BR>
>field for a<BR>
>long time - and nothing at the size or level of Pennsic, and never <BR>
>with<BR>
>combat archery. It adds nothing to the game for me and may cost me <BR>
>a lot.<BR>
><BR>
>Istvan Toth (Doug Toth)<BR>
><BR>
>P.S. Please feel free to forward this to anyone you wish.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>======================================================================<BR>
>==<BR>
> The Merry Rose Tavern at Cheapside<BR>
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