[Ansteorra-archery] Static VS Combat

meggiddo at netzero.net meggiddo at netzero.net
Tue May 6 09:33:26 PDT 2003


I welcome you or anyone else to come stir the pot or even throw rocks
at glass houses. I will even go so far as to Thank you for doing so!

It is the exchange of various thoughts, methods, suggestions, and/or
processes that allow for improvements to raise their heads above the
political correctness or general mill of sheep that can only echo the
status quote, an open end discussion is valid.

Ansteorra-Archery actually does mean - depending upon the time of year -
60% to 90% static archery and only the one or two e-mails dealing with
combat archery are buried deep among the static ones. Go check the
archives.

Signora Bianca Sereni, you mention about cross posting between the two
lists, then go for it! But it needs to be 100% and NOT just left up to
one or two individuals to decide whether one thread is "Worthy" of the
group to see or not. This censorship is already being applied to a local
sub-group and I find that to be distasteful!

The Ansteorra-Missile list came about NOT by a suggestion from me, nor a
suggestion from one combat archer nor a by a group of other Combat
Archers either. The Ansteorra-Missile List was suggested by a "Heavy
Fighter"!

Now think on that!

I will repeat myself here - A "Heavy Fighter" suggested the
Ansteorra-Missile list. Now, I am not sure if some of you can
understand just how important this action was. A "Heavy Fighter"
actually wanting and desiring a means of discussing various aspects of
Combat Archery and/or missile combat on a daily basis, without being
bogged down by issues concerning static archery!

The reply from those few archers (5 out of ~25) that were at 3 Kings
2002 (which the majority of the archers who were there and knew of the
meeting being chaired by HL Octavia, yet would not attend the meeting
held at the end of the day of fighting. They had to go shoot Static
Archery!) - "Why not just use the Ansteorra-Archery list?" Just as both
of you and a select few others have suggested already on the
Ansteorra-Archery list.

The answer from the heavy fighter is the following:

"I have no desire to read about Static Archery, if I have too, just to
get to those few messages about Combat Archery, THEN IT IS NOT WORTH THE
EFFORT"!

The above not only applies to that heavy fighter, it also applies to a
majority of other heavy fighters including those that I spoke with this
past Sunday at Steppes Fighter Practice, which has moved back to
Carrollton. (Note - combat archery has permission to be conduct within
this city's park.)

In speaking with Lord Morgan Buchanan, the knight marshal of the
Steppes, he said he was relieved when he was told about the email list
that was specifically for combat archery and immediately unsubbed from
the Ansteorra-Archery list (archery list) and subbed to the
Ansteorra-Missile list (combat archery list).  He said that he really
just had no interest in static archery and the more specialized list was
greatly appreciated.

Static archery is NOT relevantly to combat on the battlefield. It does
NOT make an impact to the heavy fighters game that they wish to play.
Combat Archery does make an impact to how things are attempted and
accomplish on the battlefield!

Please - DO NOT bring up the old chestnut about learning form! That has
become extreme moldy. I have witnessed too many people who can NOT shoot
a combat arrow nor walk across a field without dumping their quivers of
arrows/bolts on the ground nor have the ability to understand and take
advantage of the changing lines of combat to make a difference not only
at Gulf Wars XII, but other earlier War events as well.

You do NOT learn the necessary combat form and more importantly, the
battlefield knowledge from shooting Static Archery, which includes the
IKCAC! I do not shoot IKAC nor IKCAC, although I did shoot at a Royal
Huntsman just see if I was missing anything.

I am going to ask the following question:

"Does the fact that I do NOT shoot either IKAC or IKCAC makes me
extremely "UNSUCCESSFULLY" combat archer?"

The above question does not need a answer by anyone, just tossing it
out for food for thought.

Yet based upon the reactions to date on this list that too many others
who are on this list can not see the wider appeal of having "Heavy
Fighters" actively supporting Combat Archers. Not just on the
battlefield, but taking part in discussions prior to actually going to a
melee/war event.

Combat archery does NOT operate in a vacuum on the battlefield. There
are only 2 schedule events that I am aware of having combat archers as
the only ones on the field and both of them are at Gulf Wars. The combat
archer can NOT take nor hold ground on a normal SCA battlefield against
heavy fighters. There are some individuals who are speaking about
getting more combat archers on the field and I applaud them for this,
yet they wish to stay within the archery community for this type of
discussion. To avoid seeking out, talking with and working with heavy
fighters is to make yourselves blind to reality of the battlefield, be
it melee or war event.

I am NOT involved in Static Archery! I actually find it boring - yet if
someone wishes to purse it then by all means that is up to that
individual. Yet, do NOT walk up to me or a number of heavy fighters on
the field and spout out how wonderful you are because you shot a 200 or
300 against a "static" target, this includes whether it is a piece of
paper, fake animal, a wand of wood or a man-size target mimicking a
heavy
fighter and expect to be taken serious as an asset on the battlefield!
The simple reason, this type of recommendation means that you might be
able to shoot and hit a moving target, does not mean that this type of
archer understands how combat actual happens on a SCA battlefield nor
how to best use that knowledge.

The Ansteorra-Missile list would no longer be a "Us vs. Them" split
between the various elements of the fighting community within Ansteorra.
Rather this would bridge the gap between the different aspects of
fighting - Rattan and combat archery. To me the Ansteorra-Missile makes
an ideal vehicle among many other methods to accomplish this.

Lord Eadric brought it in an earlier e-mail of his. How many nobles,
Dukes, Counts, Earls, Knights, Squires, Man-At-Arms and just regular
heavy
fighters got authorized this year to carry a bow at Gulf Wars XII?

I can state that I help in this effort, I authorized 10 new combat
archers earlier this year. All of them were heavy fighters - including 1
knight. During this effort - all 10 found out just how hard it was to
actually load and shoot a combat arrow wearing full armor! This was
priceless, for many of them they had no idea just how difficult it was.

To Signora Bianca Sereni, who started this thread of Static vs Combat, I
WISH YOU continue success in establishing combat archery within Namron
and elsewhere that you might turn your attention too!  This would also
apply to others who are serious about establishing combat archery within
your area.  If you wish some assistance in this effort, then ask - and I
will attempt to provide assistance to you. I will even go out on a limb
and be willing to bet that both the "heavy fighter" and  Lord Morgan
Buchanan, the knight marshal of the Steppes, would also being willing to
provide assistance as well.

The amount of aggravation that it appears that I am generating to those
others who have voiced their opinions are all fine and good, which is
where an open end discussion is valid and there is nothing wrong with
being opposed to certain type of thread/idea/suggestion either. Yet it
is the aggravation,  include the amount of "Spam" that I received from
the "Static", for me personal, far outweighs any possible benefit from
being on the Ansteorra-Archery list.

The Ansteorra-Missile has been established at the suggestion of a "Heavy
Fighter", that will meet all my Combat Archery requirements and needs
for keeping abreast of information, without the "Spam".

You can reach me on the Ansteorra-Missile list.


Michael Fray
Unit Combat Archer for the Condottieri



Sjonna Whitsitt wrote:
>
> Forgive me good Gentles but I am once again stirring
> the pot ...
>
> I could care less about any other type of "missle
> list" besides combat archery and since discussion on
> this list are only for archery (note name of the list
> ansteorra-archery NOT ansteorra-STATIC archery) I
> would prefer the discussions and rules for combat
> archery stay on this list or at least be duplicated on
> this list.
>
> I am enrolled on and must muddle through enough lists
> just to get basic information on the SCA and don't
> like that I've had to add one more.  I have throughly
> enjoyed the discuss both static and combat that have
> occured over the last year on this list.  I also think
> for most of your combat archers a good number most
> likely shoot static archery also and benefit from the
> experience and stories of ARCHERS in general.
>
> Okay, I've thrown a rock at a glass house ... sorry
> but the amount of lists are riduculous -- soon there
> will be a list for single-handed weapons ...
> two-handed weapons ... crossbows only ... etc.
>
> If you make information difficult or burdensome to
> obtain you will find fewer people playing in all areas
> of this lovely game.
>
> Entitled to her own opinion on any subject she
> chooses,
> Signora Bianca Sereni
> A lowly archery marshal from Namron trying to get
> combat archery started in the central north.
>
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