[Ansteorra-archery] Other fun stuff

David Ruff davidsbox01 at yahoo.com
Fri Jul 1 23:10:26 PDT 2005

Wow.... impressive....
Ok i will just spell it out since what i wrote was taken as raving....
When Championships in this area are quoted to follow open royal round rules then i am going to follow the rules... when NEW rules are included that directly conflict with the rules i was told to folllow i am going to ask WHY.... I WILL question it.
If im told "becuase i said" - sorry - not cutting it...... I don't care WHO it comes from - i will ask until it is understood in my pea sized brain.....

Now if that offends you and that is a rant and rave to you, i am sorry for taking up your band.....
It REALLY seems to me that the archery community is a club... you step outside the clubs thinking and your dirt... you think outside the box and attempt to change things or bring new iseas to the club - your dirt.... I AM TIRED of it and really feel sorry for those that seem to follow eachother as blind mice. 
I sure the heck know better then to EVER bring up ideas and questions to ANYONE around here from here on in.... It gets you called out in open forum, yelled at, insulted and deemed as a trouble maker.... Good luck to you......

John Moore <iaenmor at swbell.net> wrote:
I have tried my best to ignore most of this rambling discussion.  However, when one states a fact and receives a answer but continues to rave it gets boring.  The IKAC and the Ansteorran Royal Rounds allow a crossbowmen/women to assume just about any position that they like.  As far as I can tell if you want to lie down and shoot there is no rule against it.   Personally I would not bother, kinda hate having to brush off the dirt and grass not to mention the chance of ants.  Know having said that when entering a tournament for a local group they can damm well make up whatever rules they want.  They are not being sponsored by the RR or the IKAC.  The groups have the option of setting up their tournament the way they want.  If they want to do a RR style shoot but make crossbow shooters stand they can.  Does this disqualify them from submitting scores NO.  All they have done is make the rules slightly stricter.  Now if they are holding a RR after the tournament just to submit scores and
 they tell you no sitting tell them to suck wind.  Please do it politely if you would.  
Pulling a 70 to 80# crossbow in a RR is tiring?  Been know to do it and I can tell a RR is not tiring even after shooting two or three in a day.  Know take yourself to the Ravine battle at Gulf War and then tell me about tiring.  If your back muscles don't reach up and smack you in the back of the head for being stupid then you have not been doing anything for the last couple of hours.  
Is it demanding to pull a crossbow?  Yes, but no more difficult to shoot a 50-60# plus bow.  A 60# bow is going to be about 1200 ip while a 130# crossbow at 8-8.5" is only going to at about 1100 ip.  Now add in the factor of having to stand up straight and balance for both but adding having to hold the bow string back adding extra strain while doing so.  Now which just got more difficult and demanding?  
My last suggestion, this one is going to get a little snippy, is to read the rules again.  Nice and slow and make sure you fully comprehend them.  Then put them away and go shoot at a tournament of your choosing and listen to what the MIC is telling you.  Those are the rules for the tournament, plain and simple.  
Iaen Mor
----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Ruff 
To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra 
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Other fun stuff

I can see your point....
However it is demanding to pull 80 to 130 lbs every shot. It tires you out as fast or faster then pulling and holding a 35lb bow. I shoot both and have tested it. 
I bring it up as according to the official rules any position is allowed, however for some reason it is not in the area. Not that it matters, a good crossbow shooter can shoot in any position - i was merely pointing out how unwrtten rules exsist. 
Try pulling a 70 to 80lb crossbow for a royal - see how your arms feel. Bows and crossbows both have there weaknesses and there strong points. I have seen bows shoot kneeling and even sitting. 
But a bow shoots standing becuase that is there most stable way to do it. 
By rights a crossbow braces  - 
one for recoil (on the stronger bows), 
two becuase a crossbow is about 2 to 5 times heavier then a bow and 
three becuase it is thier most stable platform to shoot from. 
Question...... if sitting is not allowed - well then poles to set the bow on were very period..... same thing?
Im really not trying to start a fight, rather a look at it. Bows scream unfair - yet there are things about the crossbow that are over looked. 

Susan Hill <sueorintx at hotmail.com> wrote:
Disabled archers are of course accomodated. It arguably gives a crossbowmen 
an advantage to shoot from a sitting or kneeling position because they can 
steady their aim more easily. My personal thing is that it is 
physiologically more tiring to have to stand rather than sit or kneel so in 
a competition, I ask for crossbows to stand so that they don't have an 
advantage over bows in that way. If all archers trained to shoot sitting and 
could do so, I would have no problems requiring all bows or crossbows to sit 
or stand, but for those using the longbow...it could be a distinct problem, 
depending on the length of the bow. We do have people shoot in competitions 
from wheelchairs/scooters, and I have had one archer use a little stool 
because she had problems standing for long periods. There is no problem 
whatsoever in that, but when there! is an advantage to be had, we attempt to 
keep the field as even as possible. Royal Rounds, by themselves are not 
considered competition. When we shoot them at our practices, Einan, you will 
see crossbows kneeling, sitting, or standing. It is only in competition that 
you will see changes like this.

Lyneya de Grey

----Original Message Follows----
From: Lady Einin Ciarnait 

Reply-To: Archery within the Kingdom of 
To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra 

Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Other fun stuff
Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 19:08:33 -0700 (PDT)

OK...why would sitting not be allowed? ( What about those archers who are 
disabled? )

Just a question

David Ruff wrote:
I would have guessed that to be the case. I have not seen it written 
anywhere but i imagine its like! the "rules" allowed shooting in any postion 
- but sitting and kneeling isn't allowed. Altho - changing bows i can 
honestly see a REAL advantage in that. Especially for those that roll there 

Have to understand - i build about 5 to 10 of these things a month - there 
are ones that catch my eye, combos that are insane etc...

To be silly tho - i can't imagine our forefathers actually made things to 
make the task at hand easier and more precise. Thats just out of the box 
thinking hehehehehe. <--- being silly.... :)


Harry Bilings wrote:
I have not read the "rules" lately but I doubt that you can change 
"bow/crossbows" in the middle of a round. I know that I would not allow it.
humble archer
Ravens Fort Ansteorra

Just tested a fiberglass composite prod that i made..... Has 13" powerstroke 
with a 3" brace. 16 total inches from back of prod! to teeth.

Wanna talk about some SPEED coming off the tiller.... MAN!!!!!!! blows my 
121lb competition bow out of the water.

Is pulling 130# at 13" draw, 3" brace and is 30" tip to tip.... 1690 in/lbs. 
Whats better is i have put a modern trigger system into the medieval stock 
complete with safety and auto catch teeth. No resetting the roller. This 
order was extremely weird, but the guy said trust him... i can see why.... 
This is one going out east heheh. It shoots flat and i mean FLAT out past 40 

Makes me wonder what would happen if while shooting an open round royal in 
speed round a 50lb pull at 13" draw 3" brace - using light bolts made for 
speed and flat shooting would do.... Cocking it one handed with the auto 
reset catch in it would be a dream. Building another trigger system to try 
that one out. As far as i can see there is no rules to changing bows mid 
royal round - one bow for flat out accuracy and ! range and another for pure 
speed. To fun.....


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