[Ansteorra-archery] Arrows for Gothic?
Ken Theriot
kentheriot at ravenboymusic.com
Tue Aug 19 08:35:29 PDT 2008
OK, thanks JP!
Kenneth
_____
From: Paul Thorne [mailto:paul.v.thorne at gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 9:57 AM
To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Arrows for Gothic?
There is no assumption, it is fact. The new ruling was placed into effect
immediately when it was posted by the Society Combat Archery Marshal. I
know that Gothic is just around the corner, I am working hard to get the new
standard in place so that we can go forward with this. Please be patient, I
know that time is running out but we had no say so in this and we must do
what we can.
HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO
Kingdom Missile Marshal
On 8/19/08, Ken Theriot <kentheriot at ravenboymusic.com> wrote:
Are we going on the assumption that arrows for Gothic War must comply with
the new ruling?
Thanks.
Kenneth
_____
From: Ken Theriot [mailto:kentheriot at ravenboymusic.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 9:36 AM
To: 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra'
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
Not sure if everyone saw the entire missive from Sigfried, so I have
included it below just in case there is any confusion as to what was said.
Also, I've been speaking to Northstar Archery (Sir Erika), and they plan to
purchase and sell rectangles of 1/4-in closed-cell foam for these retrofits.
Sorry if this is a duplicate, but I like to err on the side of too much
communication rather than too little.
Kenneth
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAMarshals/message/8105;_ylc=X3oDMTJxa2t2MHZk
BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ4OTQxODQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBG1zZ0lkAzgxMDUE
c2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxODQ0NTQ0MA--> New Society Marshallate
Ruling
Posted by: "Siegfried" SiegfriedFaust at gmail.com
<mailto:SiegfriedFaust at gmail.com?Subject=%20Re%3ANew%20Society%20Marshallate
%20Ruling> HyPeR__aCtIvE <http://profiles.yahoo.com/HyPeR__aCtIvE>
Sun Aug 10, 2008 5:26 am (PDT)
The Ruling:
------------ --------- ---
Effective immediately by the Society Earl Marshal & the Deputy Society Earl
Marshal for Combat Archery, the following changes to equipment are required
due to repeated incidents of helm penetrations:
* Combat Archery ammunition may have at most 1" thick padding on the tip
after taping.
* All UHMW & Siloflex/Rubber Stopper ammunition must have a side wrap of
foam added that brings the total diameter of the blunt to at least 1.5"
after taping. This wrap must extend from the tip to at least 1/2" over the
UHMW or Siloflex itself.
* All fletches on any arrows, bolts, or thrown weapons can project no
further than 1/2" from the shaft, or must be 1.5" thick.
* NOTE: All Marshals need to be rigorous in their inspections of all tips
(arrows & thrusting) and mass weapons. Ensure that the foam is firm, will
not bend over, returns to shape when compressed, and can not be easily
pushed into a legal helm more than 1/2".
------------ --------- ------
The Explanation:
For those that do not know, there were a couple of incidents of the
foam/tape of UHMW combat arrows touching the face/eyes of people at Gulf
Wars this year. There were more incidents at a West/AnTir war, and at
another event recently. Much discussion has therefore been going on at
Society Level about this potential issue ever since Gulf Wars.
At Pennsic in the Town Battle on Wednesday, there were 4 incidents of
foam/tape penetrating helms that were reported. Yes, 4 in one battle. Two
of them resulted in minor injury. One was a busted blood vessel in an eye,
the other resulted in a bruise (black eye). All of these penetrations
happened to be UHMW/RubberStopper style ammo. In one case, the rubber
stopper itself had penetrated a bit.
In all of these cases, the UHMW or Siloflex respectively did it's job and
didn't let any hard parts of the arrow enter the helm. But obviously the
force involved with just the foam/tape, from max poundage bows at close
range, is significant enough to be concerned about.
At Pennsic, when this happened, CA was cancelled for the next battle
(Mountain Pass) that was scheduled for that day. Especially because that
battle had been scheduled to be face plate only so it didn't seem to be a
good idea at the moment.
The MiC Pennsic made a ruling that for Siloflex/Rubber ammo to be allowed
for the rest of pennsic that they would need to add a side wrap. The Local
Wal-Mart was bought out of Camp Mats, and much taping happened that night so
that archers could shoot the next day.
Later in the war, meetings were held since many Kingdom Earl Marshals were
in attendance, as well as myself and the Society Earl Marshal. These issues
were discussed, as well as the fact that Low Profile Thrusting tips & Mass
Weapons depending on their construction can be forced into a helm. Also it
was brought up that there was an incident of a polearm entering a helm in
the Woods Battle and contacting someone's cheek.
After much discussion, the rulings above were developed. Basically, we
already have a rule that weapons should not be able to enter a helm more
than 1/2", and that people need to be constructing their weapons such that
this doesn't happen, and the marshals ensuring that weapons are done this
way.
Additionally the other rules were added to ammunition. This is because
ammo travels with such velocity that we need to be extra vilgiant to ensure
that we do not cause any injury. The rules as designed were done
specifically so that they are easy RETROFITS.
Noone should need to remake any ammunition from scratch. Instead just add
a side wrap of foam overtop of existing ammo, and tape it down good. To
meet the letter of the law, a 1/8" wrap of foam will not be sufficient,
since after taping down, it will compress and be less than 1.5" in
diameter. Therefore two layers of 1/8" foam, or a layer of 1/4" foam would
need to be added and taped down well.
Note that this side wrap IS required, you cannot just use bigger diameter
UHMW or Siloflex. The reason is that by adding the sidewrap, you are making
the foam on the tip much stiffer, protecting the edges of the UHMW, etc.
If archers have more than 1" of foam on the tip, it needs to be taped down
tighter, or a little bit cut off.
Also in general archers need to think about their arrow tips as thrusting
tips and building them 'solid' like you would a sword tip. Using high
quality dense foam, and/or using oversized foam and compressing it as you
tape it down so that it ends up a very firm tip that doesn't compress much,
especially circumferentially.
In Service,
Siegfried - Society Combat Archery Marshal
_____
From: Pug Bainter [mailto:pug at pug.net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:51 AM
To: 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra'
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
The "good news" is that during the January re-write of the Ansteorra rules,
there are very few changes we have to make to our law. We mostly need to
make changes to our procedures.
That being said, the "bad news" is that we require a minimum of 1" of
padding in front of the blunt. With there being no more or less than 1" of
padding in front of the blunt, that makes for a near impossible situation
for people to build, let alone have last for any reasonable time frame after
the padding breaks down.
With the diameter extended to 1.5" from 1.25", I think reducing our padding
to Society to comply with this is probably going to be reasonable. Part of
the reason we had 1" of padding in front of the head was to help absorb the
blow into the padding with the small surface area. Going from the Ansteorra
standard to the new Society standard is probably going to give a similar
effect. While the overall volume of padding is less, the surface area that
the energy is being transferred through is much higher.
* Ansteorra
o Dimensions: 1.25" x 1"
o Volume: 4.9 Cubic Inches
o Surface area: 1.227 Sq Inches
* Society
o Dimensions: 1.5" x 0.5"
o Volume: 3.5 Cubic Inches
o Surface area: 1.767 Sq Inches
* Typical Camp foam (3/8")
o Dimensions: 1.5" x 0.75"
o Volume: 5.3 Cubic Inches
o Surface area: 1.767 Sq Inches
This is an increase of 44% of the surface area for transfer of energy. As
well, since many people are using the cheaper foam (camp pads) will be
needing to use more foam to get to the 0.5" requirement and not exceed the
1" requirement, the volume is actually higher.
Ciao,
Pug
From: ansteorra-archery-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-archery-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Paul
Thorne
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 12:39 PM
To: dianet_write at yahoo.com; Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
We are working on this right now in order to clarify the rules for
Ansteorra. This is a Society Wide proclamation and we will need to adjust
our rules accordingly. I hope to have this straightened out asap so that we
may make our adjustments quickly. I appreciate your input and patience in
this matter.
HL Jean-Paul de Calmont,CAO
Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra
On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Diane Taylor <dianet_write at yahoo.com>
wrote:
Okay, I see a small problem with this announcement. Don't get me wrong,
it's a good idea, but there's just a discrepancy here that I'd like cleared
up.
In your statement, you say that all Uhmw and rubber stopper blunts must have
a sleeve that extends the size out to 1.5 inches... and yet, in the first
paragraph, you state that combat archey may not exceed 1 inch.
Ummm... a little clarification would be nice on this itme.
Thanks in advance,
Ume
See ya next time,
Diane Taylor
http://dianet-write.weebly.com/
http://paranormal-minds.blogspot.com/
http://groups.google.com/group/order-of-demented-dreamers
Writers don't get mad, they write books.
--- On Mon, 8/11/08, Paul Thorne <paul.v.thorne at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Paul Thorne <paul.v.thorne at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
> To: mm at lists.ansteorra.org, "Missile combat in Ansteorra"
<ansteorra-missile at lists.ansteorra.org>, "Archery within the Kingdom of
Ansteorra" <ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Date: Monday, August 11, 2008, 6:52 AM
> Greetings Fellow Combat Archers of Ansteorra,
>
>
> As some are aware during this recent Pennsic War a
> Society Wide Ruling
> has been put out and it is effective immediately.
> Obviously with our Fall
> Melee season just around the corner this is going to place
> some undue stress
> in getting our ammunition up to speed rather quickly. I
> know there are
> questions and we are doing our best to get them resolved as
> soon as
> possible. Please bear with us as we work out how this is
> going to effect
> our rule set. I will post any additional changes as soon
> as we work them
> out. If you have any questions or concerns please feel
> free to ask me.
> Here is the official announcement from the Society Combat
> Archery Marshal;
>
> Effective immediately by the Society Earl Marshal & the
> Deputy Society Earl
> Marshal for Combat Archery, the following changes to
> equipment are required
> due to repeated incidents of helm penetrations:
>
> * Combat Archery ammunition may have at most 1" thick
> padding on the tip
> after taping.
>
> * All UHMW & Siloflex/Rubber Stopper ammunition must
> have a side wrap of
> foam added that brings the total diameter of the blunt to
> at least 1.5"
> after taping. This wrap must extend from the tip to at
> least 1/2" over the
> UHMW or Siloflex itself.
>
> * All fletches on any arrows, bolts, or thrown weapons can
> project no
> further than 1/2" from the shaft, or must be 1.5"
> thick.
>
> * NOTE: All Marshals need to be rigorous in their
> inspections of all tips
> (arrows & thrusting) and mass weapons. Ensure that the
> foam is firm, will
> not bend over, returns to shape when compressed, and can
> not be easily
> pushed into a legal helm more than 1/2".
>
> ---------------------------
>
> Siegfried
>
>
>
> HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO
> Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra
> _______________________________________________
> Ansteorra-archery mailing list
> Ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org
> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-archery-ansteorra.org
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