[Ansteorra-archery] Arrows for Gothic?

[Paul Thorne]

There is no assumption, it is fact.  The new ruling was placed into effect
immediately when it was posted by the Society Combat Archery Marshal.  I
know that Gothic is just around the corner, I am working hard to get the new
standard in place so that we can go forward with this.  Please be patient, I
know that time is running out but we had no say so in this and we must do
what we can.


HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO
Kingdom Missile Marshal



On 8/19/08, Ken Theriot <kentheriot at ravenboymusic.com> wrote:
>
>  Are we going on the assumption that arrows for Gothic War must comply
> with the new ruling?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Kenneth
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Ken Theriot [mailto:kentheriot at ravenboymusic.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 9:36 AM
> *To:* 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra'
> *Subject:* Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
>
>
>
> Not sure if everyone saw the entire missive from Sigfried, so I have
> included it below just in case there is any confusion as to what was said.
> Also, I've been speaking to Northstar Archery (Sir Erika), and they plan to
> purchase and sell rectangles of 1/4-in closed-cell foam for these
> retrofits.  Sorry if this is a duplicate, but I like to err on the side of
> too much communication rather than too little.
>
>
>
> Kenneth
>
>
> *New Society Marshallate Ruling
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CAMarshals/message/8105;_ylc=X3oDMTJxa2t2MHZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzQ4OTQxODQEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MTI2MjgzBG1zZ0lkAzgxMDUEc2VjA2Rtc2cEc2xrA3Ztc2cEc3RpbWUDMTIxODQ0NTQ0MA-->
> * *Posted by: "Siegfried" SiegfriedFaust at gmail.com
> <SiegfriedFaust at gmail.com?Subject=%20Re%3ANew%20Society%20Marshallate%20Ruling>
> HyPeR__aCtIvE <http://profiles.yahoo.com/HyPeR__aCtIvE>* *Sun Aug 10, 2008
> 5:26 am (PDT) *
>
> The Ruling:
>
> ------------ --------- ---
>
> Effective immediately by the Society Earl Marshal & the Deputy Society Earl
> Marshal for Combat Archery, the following changes to equipment are required
> due to repeated incidents of helm penetrations:
>
> * Combat Archery ammunition may have at most 1" thick padding on the tip
> after taping.
>
> * All UHMW & Siloflex/Rubber Stopper ammunition must have a side wrap of
> foam added that brings the total diameter of the blunt to at least 1.5"
> after taping. This wrap must extend from the tip to at least 1/2" over the
> UHMW or Siloflex itself.
>
> * All fletches on any arrows, bolts, or thrown weapons can project no
> further than 1/2" from the shaft, or must be 1.5" thick.
>
> * NOTE: All Marshals need to be rigorous in their inspections of all tips
> (arrows & thrusting) and mass weapons. Ensure that the foam is firm, will
> not bend over, returns to shape when compressed, and can not be easily
> pushed into a legal helm more than 1/2".
>
> ------------ --------- ------
>
> The Explanation:
>
> For those that do not know, there were a couple of incidents of the
> foam/tape of UHMW combat arrows touching the face/eyes of people at Gulf
> Wars this year. There were more incidents at a West/AnTir war, and at
> another event recently. Much discussion has therefore been going on at
> Society Level about this potential issue ever since Gulf Wars.
>
> At Pennsic in the Town Battle on Wednesday, there were 4 incidents of
> foam/tape penetrating helms that were reported. Yes, 4 in one battle. Two
> of them resulted in minor injury. One was a busted blood vessel in an eye,
> the other resulted in a bruise (black eye). All of these penetrations
> happened to be UHMW/RubberStopper style ammo. In one case, the rubber
> stopper itself had penetrated a bit.
>
> In all of these cases, the UHMW or Siloflex respectively did it's job and
> didn't let any hard parts of the arrow enter the helm. But obviously the
> force involved with just the foam/tape, from max poundage bows at close
> range, is significant enough to be concerned about.
>
> At Pennsic, when this happened, CA was cancelled for the next battle
> (Mountain Pass) that was scheduled for that day. Especially because that
> battle had been scheduled to be face plate only so it didn't seem to be a
> good idea at the moment.
>
> The MiC Pennsic made a ruling that for Siloflex/Rubber ammo to be allowed
> for the rest of pennsic that they would need to add a side wrap. The Local
> Wal-Mart was bought out of Camp Mats, and much taping happened that night
> so
> that archers could shoot the next day.
>
> Later in the war, meetings were held since many Kingdom Earl Marshals were
> in attendance, as well as myself and the Society Earl Marshal. These issues
> were discussed, as well as the fact that Low Profile Thrusting tips & Mass
> Weapons depending on their construction can be forced into a helm. Also it
> was brought up that there was an incident of a polearm entering a helm in
> the Woods Battle and contacting someone's cheek.
>
> After much discussion, the rulings above were developed. Basically, we
> already have a rule that weapons should not be able to enter a helm more
> than 1/2", and that people need to be constructing their weapons such that
> this doesn't happen, and the marshals ensuring that weapons are done this
> way.
>
> Additionally the other rules were added to ammunition. This is because
> ammo travels with such velocity that we need to be extra vilgiant to ensure
> that we do not cause any injury. The rules as designed were done
> specifically so that they are easy RETROFITS.
>
> Noone should need to remake any ammunition from scratch. Instead just add
> a side wrap of foam overtop of existing ammo, and tape it down good. To
> meet the letter of the law, a 1/8" wrap of foam will not be sufficient,
> since after taping down, it will compress and be less than 1.5" in
> diameter. Therefore two layers of 1/8" foam, or a layer of 1/4" foam would
> need to be added and taped down well.
>
> Note that this side wrap IS required, you cannot just use bigger diameter
> UHMW or Siloflex. The reason is that by adding the sidewrap, you are making
> the foam on the tip much stiffer, protecting the edges of the UHMW, etc.
>
> If archers have more than 1" of foam on the tip, it needs to be taped down
> tighter, or a little bit cut off.
>
> Also in general archers need to think about their arrow tips as thrusting
> tips and building them 'solid' like you would a sword tip. Using high
> quality dense foam, and/or using oversized foam and compressing it as you
> tape it down so that it ends up a very firm tip that doesn't compress much,
> especially circumferentially.
>
> In Service,
> Siegfried - Society Combat Archery Marshal
>
>
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Pug Bainter [mailto:pug at pug.net]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 19, 2008 7:51 AM
> *To:* 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra'
> *Subject:* Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
>
>
>
> The "good news" is that during the January re-write of the Ansteorra rules,
> there are very few changes we have to make to our law. We mostly need to
> make changes to our procedures.
>
>
>
> That being said, the "bad news" is that we require a minimum of 1" of
> padding in front of the blunt. With there being no more or less than 1" of
> padding in front of the blunt, that makes for a near impossible situation
> for people to build, let alone have last for any reasonable time frame after
> the padding breaks down.
>
>
>
> With the diameter extended to 1.5" from 1.25", I think reducing our padding
> to Society to comply with this is probably going to be reasonable. Part of
> the reason we had 1" of padding in front of the head was to help absorb the
> blow into the padding with the small surface area. Going from the Ansteorra
> standard to the new Society standard is probably going to give a similar
> effect. While the overall volume of padding is less, the surface area that
> the energy is being transferred through is much higher.
>
>
>
> ·         Ansteorra
>
> o        Dimensions: 1.25" x 1"
>
> o        Volume: 4.9 Cubic Inches
>
> o        Surface area:  1.227 Sq Inches
>
> ·         Society
>
> o        Dimensions: 1.5" x 0.5"
>
> o        Volume: 3.5 Cubic Inches
>
> o        Surface area: 1.767 Sq Inches
>
> ·         Typical Camp foam (3/8")
>
> o        Dimensions: 1.5" x 0.75"
>
> o        Volume: 5.3 Cubic Inches
>
> o        Surface area: 1.767 Sq Inches
>
>
>
>   This is an increase of 44% of the surface area for transfer of energy. As
> well, since many people are using the cheaper foam (camp pads) will be
> needing to use more foam to get to the 0.5" requirement and not exceed the
> 1" requirement, the volume is actually higher.
>
>
>
> Ciao,
>
> Pug
>
>
>
> *From:* ansteorra-archery-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:
> ansteorra-archery-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] *On Behalf Of *Paul Thorne
> *Sent:* Monday, August 11, 2008 12:39 PM
> *To:* dianet_write at yahoo.com; Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra
> *Subject:* Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
>
>
>
> We are working on this right now in order to clarify the rules for
> Ansteorra.  This is a Society Wide proclamation and we will need to adjust
> our rules accordingly.  I hope to have this straightened out asap so that we
> may make our adjustments quickly.  I appreciate your input and patience in
> this matter.
>
>
> HL Jean-Paul de Calmont,CAO
> Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra
>
> On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 12:30 PM, Diane Taylor <dianet_write at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> Okay, I see a small problem with this announcement.  Don't get me wrong,
> it's a good idea, but there's just a discrepancy here that I'd like cleared
> up.
>
> In your statement, you say that all Uhmw and rubber stopper blunts must
> have a sleeve that extends the size out to 1.5 inches... and yet, in the
> first paragraph, you state that combat archey may not exceed 1 inch.
>
> Ummm... a little clarification would be nice on this itme.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ume
>
>
>
>
>
> See ya next time,
>
> Diane Taylor
>
> http://dianet-write.weebly.com/
> http://paranormal-minds.blogspot.com/
> http://groups.google.com/group/order-of-demented-dreamers
>
> Writers don't get mad, they write books.
>
>
> --- On Mon, 8/11/08, Paul Thorne <paul.v.thorne at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Paul Thorne <paul.v.thorne at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [Ansteorra-archery] Effective Immediately
> > To: mm at lists.ansteorra.org, "Missile combat in Ansteorra" <
> ansteorra-missile at lists.ansteorra.org>, "Archery within the Kingdom of
> Ansteorra" <ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org>
> > Date: Monday, August 11, 2008, 6:52 AM
>
> > Greetings Fellow Combat Archers of Ansteorra,
> >
> >
> >    As some are aware during this recent Pennsic War a
> > Society Wide Ruling
> > has been put out and it is effective immediately.
> > Obviously with our Fall
> > Melee season just around the corner this is going to place
> > some undue stress
> > in getting our ammunition up to speed rather quickly.  I
> > know there are
> > questions and we are doing our best to get them resolved as
> > soon as
> > possible.  Please bear with us as we work out how this is
> > going to effect
> > our rule set.  I will post any additional changes as soon
> > as we work them
> > out.  If you have any questions or concerns please feel
> > free to ask me.
> > Here is the official announcement from the Society Combat
> > Archery Marshal;
> >
> > Effective immediately by the Society Earl Marshal & the
> > Deputy Society Earl
> > Marshal for Combat Archery, the following changes to
> > equipment are required
> > due to repeated incidents of helm penetrations:
> >
> > * Combat Archery ammunition may have at most 1" thick
> > padding on the tip
> > after taping.
> >
> > * All UHMW & Siloflex/Rubber Stopper ammunition must
> > have a side wrap of
> > foam added that brings the total diameter of the blunt to
> > at least 1.5"
> > after taping.  This wrap must extend from the tip to at
> > least 1/2" over the
> > UHMW or Siloflex itself.
> >
> > * All fletches on any arrows, bolts, or thrown weapons can
> > project no
> > further than 1/2" from the shaft, or must be 1.5"
> > thick.
> >
> > * NOTE:  All Marshals need to be rigorous in their
> > inspections of all tips
> > (arrows & thrusting) and mass weapons.  Ensure that the
> > foam is firm, will
> > not bend over, returns to shape when compressed, and can
> > not be easily
> > pushed into a legal helm more than 1/2".
> >
> > ---------------------------
> >
> > Siegfried
> >
> >
> >
> > HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO
> > Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ansteorra-archery mailing list
> > Ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org
> > http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-archery-ansteorra.org
>
>
>
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>
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