[Ansteorra-archery] Archery Discussion

Ken Theriot kentheriot at ravenboymusic.com
Thu Oct 2 12:14:02 PDT 2008

I honestly don't think there is any data on correlations between situations
where a bystander was hit, and the "strictness" of the shooter's
authorization process.  In fact, I'd like to see "official" data (as in
officially filed SCA reports) where a bystander in a legal area was hit.
I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'd just like to see it if it does.  Then
we can act from a position of real knowledge.  If there is no correlation,
then there is no logic to the presupposition that "more training and
observation prior to authorization will reduce safety incidents."

Will bystanders sometimes get hit by a stray combat arrow?  Probably.  The
question we NEED answered before we assume it only (or even usually) happens
because the archer was not properly trained, is whether there is any data to
support that assertion.

I'd be willing to bet large sums of cash that we would see no change in the
number of spectators hit if we err a little LESS on the side of caution.
I'm absolutely not suggesting that we turn someone loose on the field whom
we have not seen demonstrate the minimum requirements (as described below).
Both Eadric and I are saying that it needn't require participation in
multiple melee/archery "wars," it needn't require a "buddy" separate from
the authorizing marshal to observe all day, etc.  Those are restrictions
some have assumed are mandatory.  

If I have spent enough time talking to the candidate to ensure they can
repeat the rules back to me and understand them, and observing their actions
in a few melee scenarios (enough to allow me to see if they can control
their shots, not poke someone in the eye with their bow, and not shoot
arrows toward the onlookers, etc.), then I'm gonna authorize.

Reasonable assurance using logical procedures based on actual evidence is
what we need.  Any more than that and we DO make it too hard, especially if
it is merely a response to perceived political pressure.




-----Original Message-----
From: John Moore [mailto:iaenmor at swbell.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 10:41 PM
To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Archery Discussion

Some are going to say it is too hard, others will swing the other way.  
Considering that amount of flack CA gets I try to err on the side of 
caution.  If you really want to do this then you need the patience to 
authorize.  Where it just going out with a stick and it never leaving 
your hands it would be different.  But when you shoot at someone once 
you release you have no control over where it will end up.  I have seen 
perfectly reasonable shots bounce off someone or thing and go in the 
craziest directions.  We have to make sure that those doing the shooting 
are very careful of what they are doing.  Rarely does one here of a 
bystander getting hit with a sword, spear or polearm.  Let that happen 
with an arrow or bolt and just wait for the screaming to begin.  Been 
there heard and didn't like it then or now. 

Do we err on the side of caution too much?  Most likely.  But better to 
be safe and make sure that those out there are as safe as we can than 
deal with the uproar afterwards. 


Eric Brown wrote:
> That reminds me, I forgot one... do y'all think that the authorization 
> process is, too hard?  Too easy?
> The grass roots grumbling i hear is it keeps fols from getting into to 
> CA becuase the initial hurdle is too high...
> what do you think of this contention.
> (If anyone has numbers to his question I'd love to see them)
> Thanks,
> Caladin-
> Jed Tressler wrote:
>> Out of curiosity, and because I think it would help commanders plan 
>> both battle strategies and recruitment efforts, based on 
>> authorizations, how many combat archers are there total in the kingdom.
>> Which is to say, what is our current maximum archer strength if 
>> everyone who is legal to shoot did?
>> Bastian Eisengart
>> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Eric Brown <caladin at io.com 
>> <mailto:caladin at io.com>> wrote:
>>     Hi all,
>>     I'd like to talk about what we can do to encourage Combat Archery.
>>     We in recent years have come to gulf with fewer Archers than 
>> Trimaris,
>>     Add this to the big Morale hit the archers are taking with the new
>>     rule changes,
>>     And I'm afraid we're going to be in trouble.
>>     For those of you who didn't experience it a fresh at Gothic, being
>>     outnumbered
>>     By archers is a really unhappy place to be :). So I'd like to
>>     discuss what we can do
>>     To share that experience with our enemies instead of keeping it
>>     all to ourselves. :)
>>     Here are some of the ideas I've heard so far.
>>     - Start practicing with the archers included. Involve them in each
>>     maneuver.
>>     This is to help them feel more included and build esprit de corps..
>>     - Fundraisers for ammo upgrade costs.
>>     - Build archers into plans specifically, as at the ravine battle
>>     at gulf where they
>>     Were supposed to all attack a specific point just before we
>>     charged it.
>>     - Make sure not to schedule archer battles at Gulf at the same
>>     time as HW battles..
>>     (or so close there is no time to move from one to the other ie how
>>     it was last year.)
>>     Does anyone know who we should talk to about this one? Who's our
>>     liaison to the
>>     scheduling of Gulf?
>>     - Buy all our significant others a crossbow & armor for Christmas.
>>     ( :) )
>>     I know there are some folks who aren't the biggest fans of CA
>>     (although I'm a fan), and I ask please
>>     that we set that aside and support them for this Gulf War. It's a
>>     known fact that the enemy
>>     will have CA at Gulf, lets band together to make sure WE have more
>>     than the
>>     Enemy, so that they experience far more suckage than we do.
>>     Think of Archer Dominance, like Air Superiority in modern combat.
>>     If you have it, its gives you near total freedom
>>     To do what you want on the ground, and if you don't have it, you
>>     are strongly inhibited from doing what YOU
>>     Want to do on the ground. Do you want to be roaming the field
>>     hitting where you want, or do you want to be
>>     Huddled behind a shield waiting for a chance to do something?
>>     More archers = More fun for everyone (on our side :)).
>>     I'd like to set Archer dominance as one of our goals for next
>>     Gulfwar and the Gulfwar after,
>>     What do you think, how can we do it, and who's willing to step up
>>     to help organize and lead?
>>     Sir Kenneth has volunteered to step up as a Combat Archery Liason,
>>     to help drive this effort,
>>     But we need more than one man to make this happen.
>>     Thanks,
>>     Caladin-
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