[Ansteorra-archery] missile carpool , long , was Re: Third Quarter 2008 Royal Round Keeper Report

Mon Sep 8 19:49:15 PDT 2008

greetings 

>Re:  Castellan shoots:  If they didn't ask you for the event flier what you're doing, how are other archers going to know? 
archery here is still looked upon by many as a second class activity ( you know , as long as the heavy and rapier people are happy, it will be a great event ) were still something " those odd people do " , to be honest not everyone feels this way and advances have been made , and I hope continue to be made, but like anything in the society  , change is slow to happen.

>I think that no one "bothered" to show up early or late because they didn't know a RR was being held.
actually, people usually know at least about Sunday, cause they normally ask at the competition ; )

>Re:  The range being open all day:  If you are running archery at an event, you are doing the autocrats a favor.  Without you, there would be no archery.  It is a give and take relationship:  they need you to run archery, and in return, yes, you do have the right to say, "no, I'm sorry, but the range will be open from x to y."  Of course you can work with the rapier and heavy marshals and try to schedule around each other, but I fully believe you have the right not to be out in the blazing sun all day.  You also have the right to enjoy the rest of the event.  If you want to run archery in the morning and then do bardic (or whatever) in the afternoon, you should be able to do it.  It's your event too.
naw , I'm nobody important , I don't do anything you or any other marshal doesn't do , we all plan shoots, turn in paperwork, marshal, help marshal, set up and tear down ranges , many not our own , and roast our poor donkeys off, so that others can have fun ; ) , then we take a shower , and try not to fall asleep in court  = 0 }
to be honest , for the last 2 castellans , I have put my foot down and said the range will close at about 2 pm,
(  since the scores must be submitted by 4 pm )
in order that my marshals ( ok, so I mother hen the marshals helping on my ranges ; ) and archers may also get to participate in other castellan
activities.

>What it's probably going to take is communication between the archery MIC for an event and the autocrats.  And of course, make sure the archery schedule is known via the event website, site flier, e-mail announcements, etc. 
as I told you previously , upon seeing your populace come out in mass to help tear down your archery and thrown weapons ranges , it was the first time ever I have seen anything like it and I am still awed and amazed at the teamwork displayed by your entire group , if only all groups were like yours and worked as a team, there's no limit to how much could get done , unfortunately , in many places there is a great lack of communication , in both directions .
like I said earlier , change is  happening, but slowly , in some places ,very slowly ...

>When I read Baron Donnchadh's e-mail about there being RRs at Protectorate, I went, "oooooooooooooooooooooo, I just made my decision to attend Protectorate."  Unless something unexpected happens, I'll be there.
here I agree with you completely , the " secret shoots " have got to stop !!
 with rising gas prices , and rising costs in general , we need to be posting what shoots will be at what events, well in advance so people can save for those events with the type shoots they enjoy shooting , this would also have the added benefit of letting others see what was going on the ranges, and attracting more people to come participate and watch the exciting shoots , ( right now its more exciting to watch people beat on other people  , than it is to watch most archery tourneys , ) , but when the autocrats are only willing to put " there will be archery " in the event info, after the half page of what style heavy combat is to take place , its hard to get excited : /

>And encourage people to think of archery as not just "what the people who don't fight heavy or rapier do." 
yep, that's every missile persons job , both in word and deed !!  on the range and off .

>Archery takes remarkable skill, patience, and endurance.  Just because we don't beat or poke each other senseless doesn't mean we're any less important. 
your preaching to the choir , believe me I fully agree ; )

>I'm sorry if that has been your experience. 
I don't worry so much about me ,I've never been a people pleaser , or even remotely politically correct , so , I'm used to not feeling welcome in some places , or around some people.  but I get a bit feisty when the attitude raises its ugly head about the missile activities ; )
I'm told quite often that all activities are equal ,and there are groups where this ideal can be observed ,  but unfortunately the proof is in the deed , and not in the word , and the treatment of some activities is in all ways preferential to  the treatment received by the other activities , at least in some groups  .

>If you're running an activity at an event, be it archery, feast, A&S, or heavy fighting:  You.  Are.  Important.
the hard part is to get people to realize we are all " important " from those who give freely of their time , experience and knowledge , to those who only come to one event a year, from those already recognized as peers , to the newbie at their first event , weather its your first event , or your 500th event, you are contributing to the society financially, and more importantly , socially , the interaction of all these people are what makes the sca both a political hot bed , and thriving community , a not so perfect " family " in a not so perfect world.

yet I still remember the words that got me interested in the sca 26 + years ago...
friend = " you've got to come see these people , they're a blast .
me = why , what do they do ?
friend = they recreate the middle ages the way it should have been , with damsels in distress, knights in shining armor,flushing toilets , and microwave ovens !!!

that was enough for me to look them up when I got back to Oklahoma , and I've been a member as often as I could afford it ever since ..
I have sca friends all over this kingdom, and in calontir, and if they still play , even in trimaris 
( yes my being in the sca is partly the trimarans fault ; )

>My soapbox.  I'm getting off of it now.
oh no , you didn't break it did you ?? with me around your liable to need it later ; )

>Love you guys,
s'ok sis , we love you too = )

be safe, be happy, have fun
arthur 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: A.N. Novy 
  To: 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra' 
  Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 8:26 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] missile carpool , long ,was Re: Third Quarter 2008 Royal Round Keeper Report

  Re:  Castellan shoots:  If they didn't ask you for the event flier what you're doing, how are other archers going to know?  Why didn't you tell them what you were planning the next 5 years?  I think that no one "bothered" to show up early or late because they didn't know a RR was being held.

  Re:  Freaking out:  Sorry, but I just haven't seen it...The only time I see people fumbling is when they are new or when the shoot is timed.

  Re:  The range being open all day:  If you are running archery at an event, you are doing the autocrats a favor.  Without you, there would be no archery.  It is a give and take relationship:  they need you to run archery, and in return, yes, you do have the right to say, "no, I'm sorry, but the range will be open from x to y."  Of course you can work with the rapier and heavy marshals and try to schedule around each other, but I fully believe you have the right not to be out in the blazing sun all day.  You also have the right to enjoy the rest of the event.  If you want to run archery in the morning and then do bardic (or whatever) in the afternoon, you should be able to do it.  It's your event too.

  Re:  Interest in RR at events:  Perhaps this is a "If you hold it, they will come" type of thing.  I've always had at least a dozen archers shooting the RR at Guardian/Triumphe.  Even if I only had 2 archers shooting, I would still hold the RR.  What it's probably going to take is communication between the archery MIC for an event and the autocrats.  And of course, make sure the archery schedule is known via the event website, site flier, e-mail announcements, etc.  When I read Baron Donnchadh's e-mail about there being RRs at Protectorate, I went, "oooooooooooooooooooooo, I just made my decision to attend Protectorate."  Unless something unexpected happens, I'll be there.  And encourage people to think of archery as not just "what the people who don't fight heavy or rapier do."  Archery takes remarkable skill, patience, and endurance.  Just because we don't beat or poke each other senseless doesn't mean we're any less important.  I'm sorry if that has been your experience.  If you're running an activity at an event, be it archery, feast, A&S, or heavy fighting:  You.  Are.  Important.

  My soapbox.  I'm getting off of it now.

  Love you guys,

  Z

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  From: ansteorra-archery-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:ansteorra-archery-bounces at lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of ld.blackmoon
  Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 7:05 PM
  To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra
  Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] missile carpool , long ,was Re: Third Quarter 2008 Royal Round Keeper Report

  greetings

  >I don't remember seeing a Castellan RR scheduled in the site flier, on the website, or announced on the archery list.  If this is my memory failing me, then it is my mistake.

  that would be because in 6 years ive never posted anything in the event flyer ,as im never ask untill after it is sent in what will be going on on the range, they just know i'll take care of whatever needs doing.

  and by tradition weather permitting , there has been a royal scheduled either friday evening or sunday morning every castellan for the last 6 years. sometimes no one bothers to show up early or stay late to come shoot a royal.

  >Again, I think this is where you and I differ.

  thats ok, if everyone agreed on everything , we would all spend our lives bored to tears ; )

  this is why we are all allowed our own opinion .

  > I shoot to have fun,

  this is part of the problem , everyone has a differeent idea of what is fun , for me its to be challenged as a shooter , for some its shooting barney  stuffed animals, for still others its shooting balloons as they bounce across the ground , some people only want to shoot combat arrows , some only want to shoot foam animals , etc.

  personaly i think they should all be shot at in an archers life as they all have different things to teach the archer, but again thats my opinion ; )

  ( ever done a monkey shoot ??  theyre a blast , but the blood runs to your head if you take too long, & i wouldn't recomend wearing a dress or skirt ; )

  >And I've never seen anyone freaking out on a line because they're shooting in a new place.  Most people I've seen are excited to shoot in a new place, not apprehensive about it; a new shooting location doesn't seem to bother them.

  call it excited, freaked out , nervous tension , what ever you like , but when an archer starts dropping arrows, fumbling knocking arrows, his / her score drops 20 or more points , missing shots they can normaly make with ease , etc , they are under stress and more likely to make a safety mistake

  >Did they shoot Royal Rounds at this event?

  no,unless they did it sunday ( i left sat night ) ,  they didn't even get to finish the tourney because rain had delayed the the archers shooting the preceding rounds enough that they cut the last round in order to finish before it got dark.

  >And all that is fine.  But it doesn't have anything to do with whether an event hosts a RR or not.

  no , but as h l eadric points out in his post , some autocrats ( like northkeep ) require the range to be available at any time all day sat 

  since they see missile activity as being less important 

  unlike the rapier or heavy lists that have definite start and stop times , ( if you miss armor inspection , or the first round you cant come in later and say sign me up i want to win )

  >Again, I didn't say in my original e-mail that you should stop doing special practices altogether.  I said that you might be surprised at the number of people submitting RR scores if you actually have RR shoots at an event.

  the " special " practices are not extra practices , they are regularly scheduled practices that we try to attend instead of holding that one practice we will miss by travelling, and only happen every other month or so as event schedules permit .a heavy event month usualy won't see any " special " practices.

  and its not the people submiting the royal round scores , its the number of marshals holding royal rounds and submitting scores, if the marshals dont hold royal rounds weather at practice or events , there will be no scores submitted.

  a lot of times i'm told " there wasn't any interest " when i ask if there will be royal rounds at any given event , so perhaps we need to stir up some interest and let marshals know in advance that x number of archers are planning to attend such and so event, can we get an away score ??

  perhaps that way , they will know there is an " interest "

  again this is just the way i see things at this point, but im old and human , so i very well could be wrong , so catch me at an event some time , bring a drink and a chair, and you can try to convince me where i'm wrong, or just being stubborn ; )

  i'll enjoy the company , the discussion , and may even change my mind  .

  be safe, be happy, have fun

  arthur 

  .

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: A.N. Novy 

    To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra 

    Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 3:01 PM

    Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] missile carpool , long , was Re: Third Quarter 2008 Royal Round Keeper Report

    ---- "ld.blackmoon" <ld.blackmoon at cox.net> wrote: 
    > actually the carpooling to other practices had several reasons ,none of which was to eliminate the royal rounds at events , if it hadn't been for the big storm sunday at castellan there would have been a royal round on sunday morning as usual.
    >

    I don't remember seeing a Castellan RR scheduled in the site flier, on the website, or announced on the archery list.  If this is my memory failing me, then it is my mistake.

    > i started the carpooling to practices , to improve the missile skills and promote missile activities ,so that archers can get used to shooting on a full firing line , in different places , under different marshals , and not always standing next to the same people, hearing the same marshal over and over again .this will help them focus on shooting well at events , and not freaking out because they aren't used to shooting at a new place , under a different marshal , with a different landscape.

    Again, I think this is where you and I differ.  I shoot to have fun, and if my score happens to go up as a result, then it's a side effect, but it's not the driving force behind my shooting.  Also, all of the reasons you listed for starting a carpool can be applied to shooting at events:  full firing line, in different places, under different marshals, etc.  And I've never seen anyone freaking out on a line because they're shooting in a new place.  Most people I've seen are excited to shoot in a new place, not apprehensive about it; a new shooting location doesn't seem to bother them.

    > this is also one of the reasons that a group of us went and participated in calontirs " kings company of archers "  this past weekend.
    > ( a stand alone archery event where they compete from all over the kingdom , at all levels unranked to grant level )

    Did they shoot Royal Rounds at this event?

    > carpooling to different practices was also to help archers and marshals get to know each other and help each other , as in the north we're sort of like a big missile family , where to get help all you have to do is ask .
    > and was to give marshals an idea about  what it would be like to be a m i c for an event , having that many people show up to shoot.
    > northkeep has a small range , so only 5 or 6 can shoot at a time , so our regional practice may have a lot of socializing time as well .
    > it was also a way to ease travel expenses so that i could get to more places in order to authorize more people for both thrown weapons and archery .
    > getting an away score is just a nice bonus added to all the benifits of carpooling to practices.
    > 

    And all that is fine.  But it doesn't have anything to do with whether an event hosts a RR or not.

    > part of the reason i see royal rounds not being shot as much is the fact that a lot of marshals are saying they hate circle targets , they only want to do " fun " shoots .both for practice and for events . 

    I don't feel that way, but ok.

    > ( which of course means no paper work till the quarterlies , or event reports ) ( which thanx to hl eadrics long hours , reporting is very easy , where else can you turn in ikacs and royal rounds at the same time ?? )
    > ansteorra is constant being beaten in the ikac by antir , and a couple others , in some divisions , by a lot of others . 
    > this isnt going to change as long as groups only do " fun " shoots,  or people only practice shooting at events.
    > 

    Again, I didn't say in my original e-mail that you should stop doing special practices altogether.  I said that you might be surprised at the number of people submitting RR scores if you actually have RR shoots at an event.

    Z

    > ----- Original Message ----- 
    >   From: A.N. Novy 
    >   To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra 
    >   Sent: Monday, September 08, 2008 12:22 PM
    >   Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Third Quarter 2008 Royal Round Keeper Report
    > 
    > 
    >   I may have a different viewpoint than many on this list, but I think it should be expressed.
    > 
    >   It is not a great concern of mine to increase my RR score.  I am more interested in having fun and using archery as a relaxing diversion from my mundane life.  As a result, I am not willing to drive 3 or 4 hours roundtrip, even carpooling, to attend a special practice just so I can get an away score.  It takes two very valuable resources:  my money and my time.  I think this recent push to have special practices has replaced holding Royal Round shoots at events.
    > 
    >   When I was in the Outlands, at any event at which archery was held, there was also an opportunity to shoot a Royal Round (also, sometimes events that had no other archery scheduled would still hold a RR).  Every effort was made to hold one.  This made it much easier for the casual archer to still participate and track his or her scores, because if you're at the event anyway, why not shoot a RR and get that away score?  Heck, there was a time when my RR score was made up of only away scores shot at events.
    > 
    >   I believe the Outlands policy was the correct way to go, which is why since I started running archery at Mooneschadowe Guardian/Triumphe 3 years ago, I have held a RR.  I will be continuing this tradition this year, and for as long as I run archery for that event.
    > 
    >   People can hold special practices if they wish.  I am not saying they should stop.  What I am saying is that you might be surprised at how many more archers start submitting scores if you give them the opportunity at events to do so.
    > 
    >   Thanks,
    >   Zorya Prazan
    >   Mooneschadowe Archery Marshal
    > 
    > 

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