[Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery

Doug Copley doug.copley at gmail.com
Tue Feb 10 07:49:49 PST 2009


I am very happy to hear of things like this as I plan to expand my 
archery in the future to include CA.

Thanks for letting us know.

Vincenti

guylestran at aol.com wrote:
> Please understand that not all Knights are against it.
> 
> I see Combat Archery as a part of war and in every Kingdom in which I 
> have had a part in the Armt Structure I have created an Archery Captain 
> postion.
> 
> There is however a very vocial group to include some knights that feel 
> as Mast Pug states.
> 
> As a matter of fact this past Pennsic the Atlantian King gae out 4 
> Sharks Tooths(Atlantian award for valor/cool stuff on the field) to 
> combat archers after they pretty much decimated the other side on one of 
> Atlantia's end bridges.
> 
> I have a crossbow that I use.
> 
> Sir Guy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ld.blackmoon <ld.blackmoon at cox.net>
> To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra 
> <ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org>
> Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:08 am
> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery
> 
> greetings
>  
> master pug , it may be a quick and dirty version of the history, but a 
> very accurate one it is indeed ; )
> and much better written than my earlier reply.
>  
> be safe, be happy, have fun
> arthur
> 
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Pug Bainter
>     *To:* 'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra'
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, February 10, 2009 8:05 AM
>     *Subject:* [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery
> 
>     Good Morning,
> 
>       I think there is something that a few of us have seen because of
>     our roles
>     in the upper archery marshal arena, that the majority of the archers
>     have
>     not. This viewpoint is one that gives new light onto some of the
>     arguments
>     when issues with Combat Archery come up. This is a very simplified
>     history
>     with a lot of other arguments in between, but it gives you an idea.
> 
>       Combat Archery was founded and there were very few archers, but
>     they were
>     having fun and kept coming back despite having their ammo destroyed
>     all the
>     time because of the materials. In general the fighters are having a good
>     time with it because there are so few archers that even the good
>     ones can
>     only make a limited amount of difference to a major battle.
> 
>       During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including
>     Knights
>     that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It
>     should be
>     banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.
> 
>       At some point early in my fighting career (about 10-11 years ago now),
>     Combat Archery made a big leap in effectiveness on the battle field.
>     This
>     effectiveness was due to two factors, the quality of the archers and the
>     quantity of the archers. Because of this, the argument about combat
>     archery
>     not being safe came up and APDs were created a year or so later.
>     This caused
>     a lot of combat archers to drop off the field because of the anger
>     they had
>     or the cost/hassle of getting their equipment up to standard.
> 
>       During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including
>     Knights
>     that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It
>     should be
>     banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.
> 
>       This was fine for a couple years and then enough archers had
>     switched to
>     crossbow because of the effectiveness and the quality and quantity of
>     archers went up. Because of this, the argument about it not being
>     safe came
>     up because of the complex rules and there being too many styles of
>     ammo and
>     APD. This caused some angst and cost/hassle so some combat archers
>     dropped
>     off the field.
> 
>       During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including
>     Knights
>     that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It
>     should be
>     banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.
> 
>       There was a new design of Baldar blunts (eggs) that were sold without
>     going through the proper approval process. This caused a lot of
>     archers to
>     spend money since they were very effective with the way they transferred
>     energy which meant that fighters called their shots more often.
>     After going
>     through some testing, these were found to be unsafe and recalled. This
>     caused some angst and cost/hassle so some combat archers dropped off the
>     field.
> 
>       During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including
>     Knights
>     that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It
>     should be
>     banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.
> 
>       Things settled down and archers came back to the field. This last
>     year,
>     there were incidents with the recall of the one piece Baldar blunts
>     because
>     of a design flaw as well as with some ammo at Pennsic that started
>     another
>     argument about the safety of Combat Archery. This caused several
>     years worth
>     of Baldar blunt purchases to be replaced, as well as all UHMW ammo
>     to have
>     to add foam and meet previously non-existent maximum amounts of foam in
>     front of the head rules. This caused some angst and cost/hassle but
>     it looks
>     like it did not cause any combat archers to drop off the field.
>     Matter of
>     fact, because of intelligently planning ahead and working with other
>     kingdoms there have been few enough changes to the Ansteorran combat
>     archers
>     in the last several years that I think we are getting more archers
>     back on
>     the field.
> 
>       During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including
>     Knights
>     that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It
>     should be
>     banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.
> 
>       There were lots of side arguments during all of this including
>     some of my
>     favorites of just using plain UHMW heads without padding, getting rid of
>     weight limits on bows, and using golf ball heads without padding. As
>     well,
>     some of the Kingdoms weren't as well informed during the rules
>     changes and
>     their archers are having some problems now. There are a couple
>     kingdoms that
>     have fairly light poundage on their crossbows and the most recent
>     Society
>     rules changes has caused a fair number of the weapons to not be legal
>     anymore and has probably caused their archers to be angry and incur more
>     cost to get back on the field, if they do at all right now.
>     Fortunately for
>     us we paid attention to the data our marshals had gathered and knew
>     that the
>     change would impact very few, if any, of our combat archers.
> 
>       So for us, our Earl Marshal, our Archery Marshals, and our Crown,
>     we have
>     to figure out how to be diplomatic and logical in our fight to keep
>     combat
>     archery around. We have to take the moral high ground since anything
>     else
>     will just prove 'their' point. While we may not like it or
>     understand why it
>     really matters in the long run, unfortunately it sometimes means
>     only being
>     able to carry 15 pieces of ammo at a time in the ravine in order to have
>     Combat Archery at all in the ravine.
> 
>       This is *not* to say that we just roll over whenever something stupid
>     comes out, but it does mean we have to be well informed about the
>     circumstances and plead a reasonable case and not an emotional knee jerk
>     reaction. This will help combat archery to survive.
> 
>       Btw, the vocal group of fighters and Knights against this is a
>     very small
>     group, but they are so rabid about their argument that they can
>     cause even
>     the most pro-archery people to throw up their arms in surrender. I was
>     talking to a Knight about it just this weekend who had finally given up
>     because of the way it was making him to react.
> 
>     Ciao,
> 
>     Pug Bainter
>     Phelim Gervase called Pug
>     Dark Horde Moritu - Barony of Bryn Gwlad - Kingdom of Ansteorra
>     pug at pug.net
> 
> 
> 
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