[Ansteorra-archery] Horsebow vs. Longbow

Ld. Cian Rhys Gravenor metaldog00 at hotmail.com
Thu May 30 11:12:51 PDT 2013 

I agree with you we need clarification of the rules. I thought that's what we were trying to do by discussing it.  I wasn't arguing against it. I was arguing for the simplest solution. 

Cian

Sent from my iPhone

On May 30, 2013, at 12:35 PM, "Doug Copley" <doug.copley at gmail.com> wrote:

> easier to get people to do it when the rules are clear and concise. Not sure why there is a resistance to getting a clarification on the rules and having everyone use the same guidelines? 
> 
> Vincenti
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Ld. Cian Rhys Gravenor <metaldog00 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Kist out of curiosity, is there even enough people turning in period IKAC or RR scores to even be concerned about this? If not then maybe we need to be more lenient on the matter. 
>> 
>> Cian
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 30, 2013, at 12:18 PM, "samcupps1259 at yahoo.com" <samcupps1259 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, if you consider the cross bow rules it says the prod can be of any material. A glass prod is faster than a steel one but we allow that. I think we can all agree that it is abundantly clear  that the big concern is the center cut risers not the materials the bow is made of.
>>> 
>>> HL Samuel ap Dewi
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Doug Copley <doug.copley at gmail.com> 
>>> Date: 05/30/2013 11:55 AM (GMT-06:00) 
>>> To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra <ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org> 
>>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Horsebow vs. Longbow 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rules have been posted on this, the problem is they are subject to interpretation.
>>> 
>>> You can go to: http://www.scores-sca.org/public/scores_rules.php?R=10&Shoot=65
>>> 
>>> There are 2 sentences that cause problems. one says you can use modern materials the other says you can't gain an unfair advantage. If you use fiberglass and it shoots faster you are gaining an unfair advantage. Also if you are using fiberglass and all it says is to cover it, then why not get an all fiberglass bow and cover it and use it?
>>> 
>>> Vincenti
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:26 AM, Ld. Cian Rhys Gravenor <metaldog00 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> It was my understanding of the IKAC rules what the bow is made of doesn't matter so long as the bow has no center cut in it. I am unable to confirm that due to the fact I can't seem to get to the IKAC rules for some reason. I don't suppose you could post the relevant portion of those rules, could you?
>>>> 
>>>> Cian
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On May 30, 2013, at 9:12 AM, "Doug Copley" <doug.copley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> This question was in regards to Period Shooting and Scoring for IKAC and Royal Rounds and for Period shoots. For open shoots I would allow them no problem. I also tell people that I allow carbon and aluminum arrows to be shot, just not to be scored or to compete for a title.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vincenti
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Erwin Simmons <ESIMMONS001 at hot.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Are you asking for "period" shoots or for all shoots?  For regular shoots most bows are allowed as long as they have no stabilizers and or sighting devices.  I would not       allow any of the really newer bow with the magnesium risers etc.  I have seen modern longbows, ie. laminated wood and fiberglass limbs allowed for "period" shooting.
>>>>>> A period Magyar or Mongol  horsebow , due to its laminated layered construction would have
>>>>>> a distinct advantage over a standard longbow, the longbow being a self bow.  The horsebow was fatster and had better cast.  So for me I would allow it.  I am not currently an archery marshal in Ansteorra, however I was Lieutenant General of archers for the Principality of Drachenwald and I allowed the horsebows.  Cosmetically they look more period also than some bows being shot.
>>>>>> That's my take on the question.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ld Eric Bentbow
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 5/30/2013 7:30 AM, Doug Copley wrote:
>>>>>>> This brings up a good question: Modern Horse Bows. Wooden riser, no cut out arrow rest, limbs are covered with leather, BUT the limbs are fiberglass. Are they allowed?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I have not been allowing them because with the limbs being fiberglass they are gaining an unfair advantage over a longbow made of wood. a 50# fiberglass bow will shoot fast than a 50# wood limb bow.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So how is this handled in other kingdoms? I would prefer that we move together and try to get the rules so that they are the same.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Vincenti
>>>>>>> Ansteorra
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 6:42 AM, Chuck Kaun <jack_a_lope31 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> OK,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I believe its the symbol that you want, who really cares how or where you wear it?  Too hot?  Tabard is out.  Sash would be hot too.  Dont wear a belt?  Tie it around your arm.  You are shooting too and it would be in your way?  Tie it around your leg.  Wear a dress or a tunic?  Make a cool headband that goes around your hat.  Dont wear a hat?  Wear it around your noggin, congratulations you are now a pirate.  Dont want that?  OK....obviously you didnt want to wear one...moving on.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Simply put there are many many ways to wear this thing, you have 5 parts of your body to attach it to aside from your torso that doesnt involve a lot of cloth making you overheat or overtly modifying your persona.  Find one and put it there.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Now...to make it obvious...Black with a big ole yellow arrowhead works quite well if you are wearing light colors.  wearing darks?  Yellow with a big ole black arrowhead on it.  Just dont wear it to court and the heralds wont even ask what the heck that thing is.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The point of all of this?  a plain black or yellow scarf             with a big ole arrowhead of the opposite color on it.  Easy to make, goes darn near anywhere you need it to.  Tie it to your bow when its time to leave so you dont lose it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Simple, easy to make, inexpensive
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Enjoy,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Karl Thorgeirsson
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________
>>>>>>>> > From: doug.copley at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> > To: ansteorra-archery at lists.ansteorra.org
>>>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Marshal Sash Idea
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Belt flags do not always work since many people do not wear a belt. All
>>>>>>>> > of the options have some problems with them. Some people want them some
>>>>>>>> > do not. Each of the options can either be hot or lost or forgotten. So
>>>>>>>> > the overall idea may or may not be a good work, but I still see no
>>>>>>>> > reason not to try it:-)
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I do see it being more beneficial at a LARGE event than at a small one.
>>>>>>>> > At a small one, everyone knows everyone and if anyone walks up that is
>>>>>>>> > not known, everyone knows it and should immediately step in to help
>>>>>>>> > out.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > On the larger ones, It could be a good idea to have a sash or something
>>>>>>>> > that is visible from a distance so that others can point you out to
>>>>>>>> > people. Something like this would be good at Gulf Wars or maybe a Grand
>>>>>>>> > Assembly of Archers, which we are hoping to have again next year!
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Vincenti
>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
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