<div>I was allways under the inpression that the duties of a thrown weapons marshal were directed toward "live steel" activities, and that the wepons thrown in combat were so far removed as to be under the heading of chivalric marshal. Same way that Rubber Band Guns (when they are used) in Rapier melees are inspected by rapier marshals, not combat archery marshals.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It seems silly to me to list a "piece of ratan with padded ends" under the same heading as "Heat forged steal attached to an oak shaft." One is clearly not like the other. :~)</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bastian Eisengart<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 1:13 PM, Alden Drake <<a href="mailto:alden_drake@sbcglobal.net">alden_drake@sbcglobal.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">So my question then is: If combat thrown weapons are included in<br>chivalric combat, why a) are they included in the Complete Martiallate's<br>
Handbook, Section 8.XIII.A.4 (Thrown Weapons Section, Equipment<br>Standards, Weapons Definitions, Class Four Thrown Weapons) and not<br>removed into the Chivalric Combat Section, or b) why aren't authorized<br>Combat Thrown Weapons Marshals required on the field where thrown<br>
weapons are allowed in combat (like Combat Archery Marshals)? And who<br>inspects Class Four Weapons? Chiv Marshals or Thrown Weapons Marshals?<br><br>I'm not complaining mind you, just pointing out some points that confuse<br>
me - even being a chiv field/inspecting marshal AND a thrown weapons<br>marshal.<br><br>Alden Drake<br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br>Eadric Anstapa wrote:<br>> Vyolante de Oporto wrote:<br>>><br>>> And thank you for your post it was very insightful, but got another<br>>> qeustion for you. I ran acrost what I think is the current sca<br>
>> missile combat book and it said that thrown objects could use<br>>> schedule 40 pvc pipe...... is that a siloflex equiv or did I read<br>>> something wrong?<br>>> **its to early for this kind of confusion**<br>
>> Vy<br>> This is one of the recent changes that you and your marshals should be<br>> aware of and should be covered during the authorization.<br>><br>> Keep in mind that the SCA Marshals handbook generally always trumps<br>
> any of the subordinate handbooks. And always look at and compare the<br>> publication dates.<br>><br>> The latest published SCA Missile Combat rules are from June 2000. They<br>> are undergoing a rewrite and republication that is a couple of years<br>
> over due. Currently the new rules are in their final stages with just<br>> a few of the finer points being ironed out. I expect new SCA Missile<br>> Combat rules before summer.<br>><br>> As part of the re-write it was felt that the thrown weapons rules need<br>
> to be pulled out of the Missile Combat sub-handbook and put into the<br>> main marshals handbook. This was done because essentially everywhere<br>> ya go there is no special authorization needed for thrown weapons and<br>
> people with just basic armored combat authorization can use thrown<br>> weapons. It is also part of the desire to get as much as possible into<br>> a single handbook.<br>><br>> In the March 2007 printing of the Marshals Handbook the new thrown<br>
> weapons rules were published there and those are what we should all be<br>> following. As you have noted there are some pretty significant<br>> changes. Chief among those changes was getting rid of PVC and allowing<br>
> rattan hafts/shafts/handles and moving to a double layer requirement<br>> for siloflex handles. These changes really came about as a part of the<br>> thrust and throw javelin experiments a number of years ago and<br>
> successive experiments that grew out of that. What the changes allow<br>> for is:<br>> 1. Heavier, thrown weapons that hit with more authority.<br>> 2. Thrown Weapons that can also be used hand-to-hand.<br>><br>
> So now you can go build a rattan hafted javelin, axe, mace, and if you<br>> construct it properly you can throw it or you can swing, hit, bash,<br>> and poke with it. (if you are authorized to swing, hit, bash and poke).<br>
><br>> No more "pork chops". You can actually build an axe that looks<br>> somewhat like an axe and can be swung OR thrown like an axe.<br>><br>> Regards,<br>><br>> -EA<br>><br>> Eadric Anstapa wrote:<br>
>> Vyolante de Oporto wrote:<br>>>> Greetings!<br>>>> I don't know if I'm interupting a conversation like this already but thought<br>>>> I would post a few quick questions.<br>>>><br>
>> Greetings Vyolante,<br>>><br>>> Most anyone with a CA Auth, particularly a CA Marshals auth should be<br>>> able to help ya with these questions. But let me give it a shot. :-)<br>>><br>>>> What is a good way to make a throwing axe?<br>
>>><br>>> Siloflex and Foam or Rattan and Foam for axes. Actually I prefer the<br>>> Siloflex tennis ball throwing maces because I think they throw better<br>>> and hit better. Look at<br>>> <a href="http://www.argentlupus.com/housestrongbow/tutorials/throwingmace/mace1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.argentlupus.com/housestrongbow/tutorials/throwingmace/mace1.htm</a><br>
>><br>>> Note the tutorial above only shows one layer think of siloflex for<br>>> the handle but the latest society rules require 2.<br>>> Got to <a href="http://archery.ansteorra.org/" target="_blank">http://archery.ansteorra.org</a> and look in the manuals and<br>
>> reference section. Then look at the AoB proceedings for June 2003 and<br>>> the instructions for a Thrust and Throw Javelin. That covers making a<br>>> 5' long double layer siloflex shaft and then ya just cut it into 5<br>
>> pieces for axe/mace handles.<br>>><br>>> The general guidelines for what is required are it the SCA Marshals<br>>> Handbook on page 14 but what it says is:<br>>><br>>> /E. Throwing Weapons - These weapons may be used for striking and may<br>
>> also be thrown in melee scenarios where thrown weapons are allowed.<br>>> May include thrust-and-throw javelins, axes, knives, etc.<br></div></div>>> /<br>>><br>>> 1. /Shafts shall be constructed of rattan not less than 1 1/4<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> (31.8 mm) inch in diameter along its entire length or of two<br>>> layers of Siloflex or equivalent. The outer layer shall be 1<br>>> inch (25.4 mm) inner diameter Siloflex (1 1/4 inch [31.8mm] OD)<br>
>> and the inner layer shall be 0.75 inch (19.1 mm) inner diameter<br></div>>> Siloflex./<br>>> 2. /If Siloflex is used, both ends of the shaft shall be covered<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> with either a schedule-40 PVC cap with an interior diameter the<br>>> same as the outside diameter of the shaft (1 1/4 inch [31.8<br>>> mm]), or with a rubber stopper or equivalent means to prevent<br>
>> the tubing from penetrating the thrusting tip(s), fastened<br></div>>> securely in place by tape and/or glue./<br>>> 3. /Thrusting tips shall be used on any tip that can be reasonably<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> assumed to contact a fighter when the weapon is used or thrown.<br>>> Tips shall be no less than 2 inches (50.8 mm) in<br>>> diameter/cross-section and have 2 inches (50.8 mm) of resilient<br>
>> material in front of the rigid tip of the weapon, thereby<br></div>>> providing progressively resistant give./<br>>> 4. /If the weapon has a head, it shall not be constructed of<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> solely rigid materials. The head shall be firmly and securely<br>>> attached to the haft or handle. The head shall allow at least<br>>> 1/2 inch (12.7 mm) of progressive give between the striking<br>
</div>>> surface and the weapon haft or handle./<br>>> 5. /The weapon must have the owner's name, kingdom, and group<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> clearly and legibly printed on it in English characters for<br></div>>> identification./<br>>> 6. /Total mass of the weapon shall not exceed 2 pounds (0.91 kg)./<br>
<div>
<div></div>
<div class="Wj3C7c">>><br>>><br>>> Tennis balls laced to the ends are considered equivalents for the<br>>> purposes of substituting for rubber stoppers in the same way they are<br>>> both considered adequate for use on the end allows/bolts.<br>
>><br>>> Another key point is that per #3 in the above is that the ya gotta<br>>> have something on both ends of the haft/handle. Ya just cant have the<br>>> raw end of rattan to Siloflex sticking out the butt end of an axe or<br>
>> mace that will be spinning end-over-end towards it's target.<br>>><br>>>> What is a good way to get a bunch of arrows/cross bow bolts done for gulf<br>>>> war?<br>>>><br>>> Start at least 6 months before war. Seriously.<br>
>><br>>> For an archery to be all they can be in the Ravine Battle I continue<br>>> to maintain ya need about 150 pieces of ammo. If my archers have less<br>>> than that we start running out. Remembers is a res battle so if ya<br>
>> die ya go back to res point, refill yer quiver, and then go back to<br>>> killing spearmen again.<br>>><br>>> You should have several dozen for the archers only battle.<br>>><br>>> Ya need a couple dozen tops for the field battles.<br>
>><br>>> For the Fort Battle there is no reinspecting between the two battles<br>>> so ya got have enough ammo to make it through both battles. Ya gotta<br>>> have enough to attack, and then to defend and that means you have to<br>
>> decide on a strategy and how and when you are going use them. It's<br>>> not a res battle so if you die then it's over for you but if ya live<br>>> all the way through both battles and they last a while then you can<br>
>> chew through a lot of arrows in those 2 battles as well. To be as<br>>> prepared as I can I like at least 100 per archer in my unit for that<br>>> battle but If I was not part of a unit I would want at least 200 for<br>
>> me. I want to assume that I will live till near the end of both<br>>> battles and get a lot of shots off.<br>>><br>>>> And where do I get all this stuff quickly and for a good price? (arrow<br>
>>> bolts.... tubes.....etc)<br>>>><br>>> North Star Archery. <a href="http://www.northstararchery.com/kits.html" target="_blank">http://www.northstararchery.com/kits.html</a> Erika<br>>> is super, has the fairest shipping prices and will get it out to ya<br>
>> as quick as a wink.<br>>><br>>> The other place to order would be <a href="http://shop.argentlupus.com/main.sc" target="_blank">http://shop.argentlupus.com/main.sc</a><br>>> Inga is nice, but she's not Erika.<br>
>><br>>> The glue for the Asgard APD's generally needs about a week to cure<br>>> well up inside the APDs. So if you don't get those APD's glued on<br>>> QUICKLY a lot of them might likely to fail inspection at Gulf War<br>
>> unless the APDs are taped on.<br>>><br>>> After you have shopped, consider the the CoSS will have 13 archers at<br>>> war with ~180 pieces of ammo per archer and ya understand why I said<br>>> 6 months.<br>
>><br>>> Regards,<br>>><br>>> -EA<br>>><br>><br></div></div>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br>