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Alden Drake wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:47C5B663.4020001@sbcglobal.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So my question then is: If combat thrown weapons are included in
chivalric combat, why a) are they included in the Complete Martiallate's
Handbook, Section 8.XIII.A.4 (Thrown Weapons Section, Equipment
Standards, Weapons Definitions, Class Four Thrown Weapons) and not
removed into the Chivalric Combat Section,</pre>
</blockquote>
I cant not answer that. I was not involved in the rewrite of the
latest Ansteorran CPH nor am I a thrown weapons marshal. That is a
question that should probably be asked of our Kingdom Earl Marshal.<br>
<br>
What I can tell you is that at the SOCIETY level those weapons are
addressed as part of the armored combat rules at<br>
<a
href="http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/armored/marshal_handbook.pdf">http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/armored/marshal_handbook.pdf</a><br>
and those are the rules we have to follow as they trump anything else.<br>
<br>
The are NOT part of the Society "Thrown Weapons" rules which I think
should be called "Live Weapons". "Live Steel" or something similar to
avoid confusion with weapons that may be thrown during combat. The SCA
"Thrown Weapons" i.e. Live Steel rules are at <a
href="http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/archery/thrown_weapons_rules.pdf">http://www.sca.org/officers/marshal/combat/archery/thrown_weapons_rules.pdf
</a><br>
and do NOT address such weapons.<br>
<br>
I can give you the history of how they got into our handbook. If ya
look at the Society Live steel rules and get ride of cover, index,
white space and such there are really only about 4 pages of rules.
Our Ansteorran CPH has 15 pages for such rules. This is because when
Evian wrote those rules we wanted to try and explain everything out to
the Nth degree. Evian put in place and it was Evians desire to have
those "Class Four" thrown weapons that are in no way defined at the
Society level as part of that game. He wanted to in essence create an
IKCAC for thrown weapons. He wanted some written structure for
people to hold competitions with Combat Legal Weapons without actually
being combat authorized or actually being in combat.<br>
<br>
It's totally analogous to the IKCAC where Combat Archery equipment is
used in a Target Archery Competition. Just because you are using CA
equipment does not make it CA. It's only COMBAT Archery if it is done
in Combat and you are shooting at other live people. <br>
<br>
The section you refer to reads:<br>
<font color="#3333ff"><i>4. Class Four Thrown Weapons: A Class Four
Thrown Weapon is defined as any weapon<br>
approved by the Marshallate as a thrown weapon legal for use during
actual combat.<br>
It includes, but is not limited to slings, staff slings, axes, and
javelins made<br>
according to standards found in the Missile Combat Rules of the Kingdom
of<br>
Ansteorra.</i></font><br>
and should probably just be revised to read<br>
<i><br>
4. Class Four Thrown Weapons: A Class Four Thrown Weapon is defined as
any weapon<br>
approved by the Marshallate as a thrown weapon legal for use during
actual combat.</i><br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:47C5B663.4020001@sbcglobal.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> or b) why aren't authorized
Combat Thrown Weapons Marshals required on the field where thrown
weapons are allowed in combat (like Combat Archery Marshals)?</pre>
</blockquote>
It is part of the Armored Combat rules at the Society level (and being
removed from other rules sets) so Armored
Combat Marshals are ultimately responsible for their oversight and
inspection on
the Armored Combat field. There does not have to be a Combat Archery
Marshal present for them to be used because the users aren't required
to have a CA Authorization. Some kingdoms also allow participants with
only a CA Authorization to use such weapons and therefore CA Marshals
and CA Authorizing Marshals share some responsibility for their use on
the field when they are being used by folks who only hold a CA auth. <br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:47C5B663.4020001@sbcglobal.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap=""> And who
inspects Class Four Weapons? Chiv Marshals or Thrown Weapons Marshals?
</pre>
</blockquote>
What's a Chiv Marshal? I assume you mean an "Armored Combat Marshal"
because there is no such thing as a "Chiv Marshal" unless they are a
member of the Chivalry and also a a Marshal.<br>
<br>
If they are used in Combat then it is the responsibility of the Armored
Combat Marshal to inspect them before they are allowed on the field.<br>
<br>
If they are used as part of a Target Thrown Weapons competition then it
is the responsibility of the Thrown Weapons Marshal to make sure they
are inspected before they are used in that environment. However the
Thrown Weapons Marshal gets that done it is their responsibility. <br>
<br>
My personal take on it is that since they are not used in combat and
since they are far less dangerous on the range than the actual steel
being used that the Thrown Weapons Marshal just inspects them. If the
Thrown Weapons Marshal plans on running an event where such items will
be used then they had better make sure that he is sufficiently familiar
with what is allowed for thrown weapons on the combat field. This
would be exactly how it is done for Target Archery when IKCAC style
shooting is done. As long as the Target Archery Marshal decides the CA
equipment is safe for use on their range then they inspect it and
allow/disallow and oversee it's use in their environment.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:47C5B663.4020001@sbcglobal.net" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I'm not complaining mind you, just pointing out some points that confuse
me - even being a chiv field/inspecting marshal AND a thrown weapons
marshal.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
I think that is just because "Thrown Weapons" is used twice in our
documents to mean two separate things. Once it means Weapons as
thrown in combat, the other it means Live Steel thrown at targets.
My opinion as always been that we really should have two distinctly
different names for those separate activities to avoid such confusion.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
-EA<br>
<br>
<br>
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