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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Engenulf,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You bring up a good point. Since the old
arrows are now technically not “legal,” I’m not sure we can even do this test
(which would require both old and new arrows) at an official event. We may
have to get some sort of permission, or do it in someone’s (big) back yard “unofficially.”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Or maybe we can send some arrows to Myth
Busters;).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kenneth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Mike Wyvill
[mailto:wyvillmike@hotmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 04, 2008
4:48 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Archery
within the Kingdom of Ansteorra</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ansteorra-archery]
Results From my Testing of New Combat Arrows</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>I'll have to get some arrows completed befor teh Gates Edge
event this weekend then and see if I can persuade some kind Heavy-Type to be a
guinea pig. I am sure that HL Eadric has bolts ready to go as well.<br>
<br>
<br>
Engenulf<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Segoe UI"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI";font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood"
target="_blank"><font size=1 color="#0184cb"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;
color:#0184CB;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=20 height=18
id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://gfx1.hotmail.com/mail/w3/pr01/ltr/i_charity.gif"
style='border-bottom-style:none;border-left-style:none;border-right-style:
none;border-top-style:none' alt="i'm">EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color="#3fb555"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
color:#3FB555'>Join me</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>From: <st1:PersonName w:st="on">kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com</st1:PersonName><br>
To: ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org; mm@lists.ansteorra.org;
ansteorra-missile@lists.ansteorra.org<br>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:35:44 -0500<br>
Subject: [Ansteorra-archery] Results From my Testing of New Combat Arrows<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>I have honestly forgotten which list is the new one,
so I’m sending this to all of them.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>I spend some time experimenting with different types
of padding, and methods to apply the wrap. I had sticky-back 1/4-in. foam
left over from Gulf Wars and I had the stuff that Eadric suggested, the
sticky-back 2-mm. foam from Walmart (Darice). It turns out that, on my
arrows anyway, the 1/4-in. wrap was WAY more than was needed (about 1-3/4 in.
diameter after taping). I applied strapping tape around the wrap as tight
as I could, and there really was very little in the way of compression.
</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>I made a majority of my original arrows with a
leather disc on the tip, and even before applying a side-wrap, the diameter of
the vast majority of these tips was already about 1-3/8 inches. So 1 of
the Darice 2-mm. sticky-back strips was really all that was needed. </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Nevertheless, I conducted an experiment with the
ones I wrapped with 1/4-in. foam. I shot 6 of the old arrows from my
longbow. They flew an average distance of 37 yards with very little
variation. Then I shot 6 of the fatter retrofit arrows from exactly the
same spot. There was no significant difference in the distance (or
variation) that they flew! Though it seems logical (and is definitely
true to some degree) that a wider face would encounter more wind-resistance,
and a heavier head would not fly as far; in (my) real-world testing, those
differences were negligible, and amounted to basically no real difference at
all. </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>I did NOT conduct a test of impact force. But
the observations mentioned about folks being hit by arrows not feeling them may
not be indicative of a cause-consequence situation from the retrofit.
Obviously I can't say this for certain, but I would bet money that if those
same individuals were hit with the old arrows, their answers would have been
the same. A valid experiment would be to get some willing stick jocks
(hey, I get to say that because I'm a knight;)) to let us shoot a random mix of
old and new arrows at them, and report their reaction to the hits (blind
experiment). That would eliminate any possible bias on the part of the
target....I mean other fighter;). There still could be some bias in the
way the testing archer since they would be able to see which arrow they were shooting.
But if we set up a way for the archer to shoot accurately WITHOUT knowing which
arrows they were, we could do a double-blind experiment and have actual
evidence of the differences, if any, in perceived impact to another human
fighter. </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Does it suck? Yup. But if we give up in
disgust, then we let the "enemies of CA" win! Those
"enemies," are mostly (not entirely) the dukes and other hot sticks
who feel their years of training, and their amazing god-like skill should not
be vulnerable to a weapon that a newbie can learn in a day. We all know
the arguments: how effective archery would have been in our period, presumed
armor, plate armor, arrows and bows used at different times, archery is
unchivalrous, blah, blah, blah. That is pure doggy doo. If ANYONE brings
that argument up, all we have to do is say, "yeah, and a single hit with a
1-handed broadsword to a steel helmet would barely make a dent. And wrap
shots? Shyaa! Oh, and I love the
"fighting-from-your-knees" part after someone slices one of your legs
open (or off)." Almost nothing we do as fighters in the SCA is
"realistic." But one thing is for sure, archers were an
integral part of medieval battle, and there is no way I foresee a day when
combat archery disappears from the SCA. </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Anyway, this has been my 2-pence (OK, maybe a more
like 9 or 10) on the situation.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New"'>Kenneth </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Paul Thorne
[mailto:paul.v.thorne@gmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, August 22, 2008 8:49
AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Archery
within the Kingdom of Ansteorra</st1:PersonName>; mm@lists.ansteorra.org; <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Missile combat in Ansteorra</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Mm] Society Changes<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Greetings Archers of Ansteorra,<br>
<br>
With much discussion the Society Combat Archery Marshal has
revised the recent rule change to allow the maximum padding to be 1.25"
now. This means that all of our current ammunition will be legal with the
simple addition of a sidewrap to increase the blunt diameter to
1.5". So as of right now the Society standard for padding is
1/2" minimum to 1.25" maximum.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO<br>
Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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