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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>There is one big difference between my
thrusting tips and my arrow tips. My sword doesn’t get trampled on
dozens of times by other combatants because it got flung to the ground in the
middle of an hour-long rez battle and could not be picked up! Every time
someone steps on the tip of an arrow, it weakens the foam just a bit
more. Eventually it gets soft or misshapen enough that the foam CAN
penetrate a grill when it couldn’t when new.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That’s why the new rule does not
allow us to simply use a wider blunt. Even a 1.5 inch blunt with the old
rule would still have enough padding in front of it to be smooshed after
getting trampled on enough times. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dinner is calling…gotta run</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kenneth <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> Mike [mailto:meggiddo@netzero.net] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, September 04, 2008
6:54 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Archery
within the Kingdom of Ansteorra</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ansteorra-archery]
Results From my Testing of New Combat Arrows - Possible New Design</span></font><font
color=black><span style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>What we are trying to recreate is a thrusting tip,
which is what the heavy fighters have been using on their swords, spears, and
pole arms for sometime. <br>
<br>
Based upon feedback local heavy fighters, which was need to stiffen up the
combat head on the UHMW, from this feedback. I started building thrusting tips
for my combat arrows - UHMW (1 inch long and 1.25 inches in diameter). The
construction involves 3 3/8 inches foam disks glue together, then glued on the
end of the UHMW combat head (the edges both leading and trailing have smoothed
or rounded off). <br>
<br>
Once the foam had set (about a day or so - I usually give it 2 days per arrow).
I then wrapped the entire package - the leading edge of foam disks and all the
way down the UHMW combat head in two to three wraps of Duct Tape. Then applied
strapping tape over the entire combat head assembly. <br>
<br>
The local heavy fighters and I tested it out, years ago, and it works - a nice
strict package which does not allow any part of the foam tip to enter the
grill. Then of course, we did not have all the "testing equipment"
available to us either. But just shooting it into a grill of a legal grill on a
helm on the ground at a distance of 3 feet, saw no impact nor did it stick.
Used a 30 lb. recurve at full draw. No impact clay behind the grill to see if
there was any type of penetration. <br>
<br>
I have been shooting this type of design for the last 5 years. <br>
<br>
I was just wondering why one one thought of this design. <br>
<br>
I have also cross posted to the SCA Missile list as well.<br>
<br>
<br>
Ld Michael Kettering <br>
Combat Archer <br>
Missile Marshal <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ken Theriot wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre wrap=""><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt'>I have honestly forgotten which list is the new one, so I'm sending this to<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>all of them.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I spend some time experimenting with different types of padding, and methods<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>to apply the wrap. I had sticky-back 1/4-in. foam left over from Gulf Wars<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>and I had the stuff that Eadric suggested, the sticky-back 2-mm. foam from<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Walmart (Darice). It turns out that, on my arrows anyway, the 1/4-in. wrap<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>was WAY more than was needed (about 1-3/4 in. diameter after taping). I<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>applied strapping tape around the wrap as tight as I could, and there really<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>was very little in the way of compression. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I made a majority of my original arrows with a leather disc on the tip, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>even before applying a side-wrap, the diameter of the vast majority of these<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>tips was already about 1-3/8 inches. So 1 of the Darice 2-mm. sticky-back<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>strips was really all that was needed. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Nevertheless, I conducted an experiment with the ones I wrapped with 1/4-in.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>foam. I shot 6 of the old arrows from my longbow. They flew an average<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>distance of 37 yards with very little variation. Then I shot 6 of the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>fatter retrofit arrows from exactly the same spot. There was no significant<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>difference in the distance (or variation) that they flew! Though it seems<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>logical (and is definitely true to some degree) that a wider face would<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>encounter more wind-resistance, and a heavier head would not fly as far; in<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(my) real-world testing, those differences were negligible, and amounted to<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>basically no real difference at all. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>I did NOT conduct a test of impact force. But the observations mentioned<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>about folks being hit by arrows not feeling them may not be indicative of a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>cause-consequence situation from the retrofit. Obviously I can't say this<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>for certain, but I would bet money that if those same individuals were hit<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>with the old arrows, their answers would have been the same. A valid<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>experiment would be to get some willing stick jocks (hey, I get to say that<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>because I'm a knight;)) to let us shoot a random mix of old and new arrows<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>at them, and report their reaction to the hits (blind experiment). That<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>would eliminate any possible bias on the part of the target....I mean other<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>fighter;). There still could be some bias in the way the testing archer<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>since they would be able to see which arrow they were shooting. But if we<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>set up a way for the archer to shoot accurately WITHOUT knowing which arrows<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>they were, we could do a double-blind experiment and have actual evidence of<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>the differences, if any, in perceived impact to another human fighter. <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Does it suck? Yup. But if we give up in disgust, then we let the "enemies<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>of CA" win! Those "enemies," are mostly (not entirely) the dukes and other<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>hot sticks who feel their years of training, and their amazing god-like<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>skill should not be vulnerable to a weapon that a newbie can learn in a day.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>We all know the arguments: how effective archery would have been in our<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>period, presumed armor, plate armor, arrows and bows used at different<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>times, archery is unchivalrous, blah, blah, blah. That is pure doggy doo.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>If ANYONE brings that argument up, all we have to do is say, "yeah, and a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>single hit with a 1-handed broadsword to a steel helmet would barely make a<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>dent. And wrap shots? Shyaa! Oh, and I love the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>"fighting-from-your-knees" part after someone slices one of your legs open<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>(or off)." Almost nothing we do as fighters in the SCA is "realistic." But<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>one thing is for sure, archers were an integral part of medieval battle, and<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>there is no way I foresee a day when combat archery disappears from the SCA.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Anyway, this has been my 2-pence (OK, maybe a more like 9 or 10) on the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>situation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Kenneth <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> _____ <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: Paul Thorne [<a
href="mailto:paul.v.thorne@gmail.com">mailto:paul.v.thorne@gmail.com</a>] <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 8:49 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra</st1:PersonName>; <a
href="mailto:mm@lists.ansteorra.org">mm@lists.ansteorra.org</a>; Missile<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>combat in Ansteorra<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: [Mm] Society Changes<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Greetings Archers of Ansteorra,<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> With much discussion the Society Combat Archery Marshal has revised the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>recent rule change to allow the maximum padding to be 1.25" now. This means<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>that all of our current ammunition will be legal with the simple addition of<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>a sidewrap to increase the blunt diameter to 1.5". So as of right now the<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Society standard for padding is 1/2" minimum to 1.25" maximum.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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