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Uhhh no actually I don't have ant retrofitted ones ready. Been too
busy and was just going to use the bolts I have with Baldar Blunts
since a very limited number will be needed this weekend.<br>
<br>
Before we go off shooting people at SCA events remember that it is now
illegal to shoot someone with a padded UHMW blunt that does not have
the sidewraps. SO before you can do that you gotta get permission for
the KMM and KEM to run an experiment and mark that ammo with green and
red to indicate it is experimental.<br>
<br>
Now, how you gather data in your own back yard is your own business but
do it at an SCA event and it is the marshallates responsibility.<br>
<br>
-EA<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike Wyvill wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:BAY133-W244E226803F705438AE972D4590@phx.gbl"
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</style>I'll have to get some arrows completed befor teh Gates Edge
event this weekend then and see if I can persuade some kind Heavy-Type
to be a guinea pig. I am sure that HL Eadric has bolts ready to go as
well.<br>
<br>
<br>
Engenulf<br>
<br>
<hr>
From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com">kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com</a><br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org">ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org</a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mm@lists.ansteorra.org">mm@lists.ansteorra.org</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ansteorra-missile@lists.ansteorra.org">ansteorra-missile@lists.ansteorra.org</a><br>
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:35:44 -0500<br>
Subject: [Ansteorra-archery] Results From my Testing of New Combat
Arrows<br>
<br>
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<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">I have honestly forgotten which list is the
new one, so I’m sending this to all of them.</span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">I spend some time experimenting with
different types of padding, and methods to apply the wrap. I had
sticky-back 1/4-in. foam left over from Gulf Wars and I had the stuff
that Eadric suggested, the sticky-back 2-mm. foam from Walmart
(Darice). It turns out that, on my arrows anyway, the 1/4-in. wrap was
WAY more than was needed (about 1-3/4 in. diameter after taping). I
applied strapping tape around the wrap as tight as I could, and there
really was very little in the way of compression. </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">I made a majority of my original arrows with
a leather disc on the tip, and even before applying a side-wrap, the
diameter of the vast majority of these tips was already about 1-3/8
inches. So 1 of the Darice 2-mm. sticky-back strips was really all
that was needed. </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">Nevertheless, I conducted an experiment with
the ones I wrapped with 1/4-in. foam. I shot 6 of the old arrows from
my longbow. They flew an average distance of 37 yards with very little
variation. Then I shot 6 of the fatter retrofit arrows from exactly
the same spot. There was no significant difference in the distance (or
variation) that they flew! Though it seems logical (and is definitely
true to some degree) that a wider face would encounter more
wind-resistance, and a heavier head would not fly as far; in (my)
real-world testing, those differences were negligible, and amounted to
basically no real difference at all. </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">I did NOT conduct a test of impact force.
But the observations mentioned about folks being hit by arrows not
feeling them may not be indicative of a cause-consequence situation
from the retrofit. Obviously I can't say this for certain, but I would
bet money that if those same individuals were hit with the old arrows,
their answers would have been the same. A valid experiment would be to
get some willing stick jocks (hey, I get to say that because I'm a
knight;)) to let us shoot a random mix of old and new arrows at them,
and report their reaction to the hits (blind experiment). That would
eliminate any possible bias on the part of the target....I mean other
fighter;). There still could be some bias in the way the testing
archer since they would be able to see which arrow they were shooting.
But if we set up a way for the archer to shoot accurately WITHOUT
knowing which arrows they were, we could do a double-blind experiment
and have actual evidence of the differences, if any, in perceived
impact to another human fighter. </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">Does it suck? Yup. But if we give up in
disgust, then we let the "enemies of CA" win! Those "enemies," are
mostly (not entirely) the dukes and other hot sticks who feel their
years of training, and their amazing god-like skill should not be
vulnerable to a weapon that a newbie can learn in a day. We all know
the arguments: how effective archery would have been in our period,
presumed armor, plate armor, arrows and bows used at different times,
archery is unchivalrous, blah, blah, blah. That is pure doggy doo. If
ANYONE brings that argument up, all we have to do is say, "yeah, and a
single hit with a 1-handed broadsword to a steel helmet would barely
make a dent. And wrap shots? Shyaa! Oh, and I love the
"fighting-from-your-knees" part after someone slices one of your legs
open (or off)." Almost nothing we do as fighters in the SCA is
"realistic." But one thing is for sure, archers were an integral part
of medieval battle, and there is no way I foresee a day when combat
archery disappears from the SCA. </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">Anyway, this has been my 2-pence (OK, maybe a
more like 9 or 10) on the situation.</span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></font></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><font face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">Kenneth </span></font></p>
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<p class="EC_MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font
face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> Paul Thorne
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:paul.v.thorne@gmail.com">mailto:paul.v.thorne@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, August
22, 2008 8:49 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Archery within the
Kingdom of Ansteorra; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mm@lists.ansteorra.org">mm@lists.ansteorra.org</a>; Missile combat in
Ansteorra<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> [Mm] Society
Changes</span></font></p>
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<p class="EC_MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Greetings Archers of Ansteorra,<br>
<br>
With much discussion the Society Combat Archery Marshal has revised
the recent rule change to allow the maximum padding to be 1.25" now.
This means that all of our current ammunition will be legal with the
simple addition of a sidewrap to increase the blunt diameter to 1.5".
So as of right now the Society standard for padding is 1/2" minimum to
1.25" maximum.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
HL Jean-Paul de Calmont, CAO<br>
Kingdom Missile Marshal, Ansteorra</span></font></p>
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