<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Just a thought, where we shoot we are very limited by the distance allowed at the range. One compromise to equal the playing field is adding a short additional distance to the crossbow targets. It seems to work pretty well for us. </FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>What I have observed is that for the casual archer that does not get to practice much, a crossbow is an advantage. If someone has the time and desire to practice the advantage is eliminated and a longbow/recurve shooter will have the same proficiency. </FONT></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Dante</FONT></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3> </FONT></o:p></DIV><BR><BR>--- On <B>Sun, 1/18/09, Greg Coffman <I><baroniago@earthlink.net></I></B> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">From: Greg Coffman <baroniago@earthlink.net><BR>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Cross-Bows WILL Be Welcome at the SherwoodTargetArcheryCompetitions!<BR>To: "Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra" <ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org><BR>Date: Sunday, January 18, 2009, 10:19 PM<BR><BR>
<DIV id=yiv215396548>If winning were that important to me, I'd be bummed out at LOTS of events. If I'm allowed to shoot, I'm happy.
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<DIV>Iago<BR>
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<DIV>On Jan 18, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Chuck Kaun wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">The main thing is that crossbows are allowed to shoot. Having them not able to win is ok. The main problem anyone has I think with limiting either crossbowmen or handbowmen is not being able to shoot. For example I shoot the crossbow. If a tourney says no crossbowmen allowed, I probably wont attend that event. If the tourney says crossbowmen can play but only a handbow will be able to win due to it being a themed event I will still go cause I was able to play. <BR> <BR>I guess what I am trying to say is if you want it to be a handbow tourney, make it a handbow tourney but maybe inform crossbowmen they can play all they want with you, just make the champion will be handbow only. And maybe toss a half dozen points or a crossbow string to the top crossbow participant for good sportmanship or somesuch. <BR> <BR>Karl Thorgeirsson, Crossbowman <BR><BR><BR>
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<BR>From: <A href="mailto:kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com</A><BR>To: <A href="mailto:ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org</A><BR>Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:50:53 -0600<BR>Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Cross-Bows WILL Be Welcome at the SherwoodTargetArcheryCompetitions!<BR><BR><BR>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks Iago! That’s the kind of thing I was looking for. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I’ve received a number of responses privately as well. And based on everyone’s input I will say with certainty (this time for sure;)) that cross-bows WILL be involved in the target archery at our event. I suspected that excluding one type of weapon might not be kosher, which is why I wanted to ask the folks on this list, most of whom have much more target archery experience than I do. It has been quite an education;). </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I still have to clear some things with some other folks in the barony before I put anything out through official channels as to the specifics (how we’ll arrange for parity, etc.). But I CAN promise that cross-bows will be welcome at our event! If there is one thing we WANT to do here, it is to encourage archery in Ansteorra. That is the point of this event. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks again for all your input!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kenneth</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> Greg Coffman [<A href="mailto:baroniago@earthlink.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>mailto:baroniago@earthlink.net</A>] <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:04 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Question About SherwoodTargetArcheryCompetitions</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I will come to support my barony. I will not participate because I can no longer draw my recurve due to a shoulder injury. If it were in another group, I wouldn't spend the money on the gas. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Iago</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Jan 17, 2009, at 8:29 PM, Ken Theriot wrote:</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks Arthur! I seem to have read all these replies in reverse order, so though I was certain I was going to limit it to “hand-bows” (thanks for the question there) only on the target shoots, I’m also getting a hint that some cross-bow people might feel excluded if we do that. Sigh. I definitely want this to be fun AND as inclusive as can be. And we want ALL the shoots to be happen (safely;)) in the view of spectators in a “gallery” area. The more different stuff that is going on, it seems to me, the more confusing it would be for the gallery. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Since I haven’t made the decision yet, maybe I could take a poll of cross-bow target folks on this list to see how many WOULDN’T come to the event if we made it hand-bow only, but who otherwise WOULD have come. If that number is low or non-existent, I’ll probably stay with the hand-bow only. But if 5 or 6 archers say they’re not coming due to the exclusion, I would look at including cross-bow. </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You don’t have to post it here. Feel free to e-mail me at <A href="mailto:kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com</A> if you’d like.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Oh, and again I want to make it clear that the armored combat archery WILL include cross-bows as usual. Just in case there was any question.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks again!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kenneth</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> ld.blackmoon [<A href="mailto:ld.blackmoon@cox.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow>mailto:ld.blackmoon@cox.net</A>] <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Friday, January 16, 2009 5:27 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Question About Sherwood TargetArcheryCompetitions</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">greetings </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is a Robin Hood themed event, and as such, I was hoping to limit the target competitions (we’ll be doing target stuff with both the regular TA stuff AND the CA stuff in the morning) to long bow.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">would that be long bow as in longbow only ? or longbow as in longbow / recurve ?? or some variant ?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">However, I know there are folks who prefer the cross-bow, or even shoot it exclusively for target. How is this handled in “regular” target competitions? </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">themed shoots are somewhat common in some areas , the thing is ,as you stated , some people prefer one style over the other , some like myself are trying to master as many styles as we have equipment . anyway , the key is to try to ballance your shoots so that no single style has all of the advantages . normaly one shoot will be given over to he " theme " of the event , normaly the title shoot.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">if you are going to limit any of the shoots , you really should publish the details well in advance .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cross-bows would have a huge advantage over long bows for the same target and distance wouldn’t they?</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">only if you plan it that way ...</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">there are 4 very easy ways to handicap crossbows to help ballance a shoot in target archery.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">1. timed = crossbows take longer to load and fire than recurve or longbow</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">2. distance = crossbows work well at regular known distances , not so well at unknown distances</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">3, # of shots = crossbows normaly have to get " zeroed in " if they dont know the distance , this takes shots to do , most crossbow archers will need aprox 3 to 4 shots to get zeroed, but ive seen a realy good crossbowman zero in 2 shots</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">4, cold shoot = remember almost all archers like the advantage of having a known distance , and will pace off the targets if given the chance .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">there are also ways to " handicap " longbow / recurve archers as well , it mainly lies in knowing " how " each bow type operates .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Am I off-base here? </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">that would be for you to decide , just remember to try to keep archery as an " inclusive " activity , and not an exclusive activity.bad feelings cause people to avoid events they would otherwise attend .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">crossbow envy is usualy caused because marshals don't understand how crossbows work .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don’t have the competition experience to know for sure what to do here</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">the bottom line is, have fun , if you are the marshal in charge , its your shoot , run it the way you want , unless there is a safety issue , or a nobility issue </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">( you cant start at 9 am , morning court is at 9 am or his magesty wishes to watch x activity , but wont be available till 3pm )</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">no one should be changing your shoot . any range can be closed for safety issues, so make sure you double check any possible safety issues.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">but as marshal in charge , you are responsible for all the the fun, safety, and also any problems that arise , for all the archers and spectators at your event .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Any input appreciated.</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">ok those are my thoughts on this subject, others thoughts may ( and probably will ; ) vary .</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">good luck on your event !!</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">be safe, be happy, have fun</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">arthur</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">----- Original Message ----- </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com href="mailto:kentheriot@ravenboymusic.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow>Ken Theriot</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">To:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <A title=ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org href="mailto:ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org" target=_blank rel=nofollow>'Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra'</A> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Sent:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> Friday, January 16, 2009 12:50 PM</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Subject:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> [Ansteorra-archery] Question About Sherwood Target ArcheryCompetitions</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Hey Everyone,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I was at our event planning meeting last night and talking about the archery competitions. There will be several “novelty-shoots” for target archery, but I got to thinking afterward that I wanted to ask the experts about something. I’m relatively new to target (though I’ve been doing CA regularly for a few years). </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This is a Robin Hood themed event, and as such, I was hoping to limit the target competitions (we’ll be doing target stuff with both the regular TA stuff AND the CA stuff in the morning) to long bow. I know cross-bows existed in this period, but it just isn’t in the “idiom” (zeitgeist?) of Robin Hood. Also, there is currently a set number of archery prizes…one for overall target archery, 1 for CA target archery, and 1 for “in-armor-actually-fighting” CA. If we have to ALSO split the TA prize into two (one for cross-bow, and one for long-bow), it will make things a lot harder to do. However, I know there are folks who prefer the cross-bow, or even shoot it exclusively for target. How is this handled in “regular” target competitions? </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Cross-bows would have a huge advantage over long bows for the same target and distance wouldn’t they? It would make sense to me that the two types of weapons would have to either have their own competitions, or have different distances for the same target. Regardless of either situation, it seems like it would be exponentially difficult, given our full schedule, to have both weapons in the target archery competition. Am I off-base here? Honestly, though I have participated in several “fun” shoots at SCA events, have set up a range, and am an authorized TA marshal, I don’t have the competition experience to know for sure what to do here.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Any input appreciated.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Kenneth </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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