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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’d also like to point out that
Rabbit and I ARE archers</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Wingdings><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:navy'>J</span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>. I don’t mean occasionally, either. When I do
melee, I shoot arrows. And as I have stated before, the chivalry of this
kingdom LOVES combat archery. When the rule change came out about the
latest ammo change, Sir Jean-Paul actually posted a suggestion to the chiv list
to see how they could help the archers by lending manpower and/or financial
support to get the retrofit done. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Just wanted to remind folks that the enemy
of CA is outside our borders. If we need any help, our knights and masters
are there.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Kenneth<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> Mike Wyvill
[mailto:wyvillmike@hotmail.com] <br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, February 10, 2009
12:53 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Ansteorra-archery]
Survival of Combat Archery</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Sir Guy, Honorable Lords and gentles all,<br>
<br>
I absolutely understand that our knights by and large support CA. And all
Ansteorran archers should as well. Sir Lyonel has posted to the SCA Missile
Combat list supporting us, I know personally of Duke Aaron and Duke Ulsted and
their support. Sir Alexis has crossbowmen in his Blue Company so of course not
all knights in or out of this Kingdom oppose archery. And I did not post
to the list to stir up trouble. I just think we need to get an idea of our
numbers so that we can come up with effective tactics for the ravine. <br>
<br>
The Midrealm has declared for Trimaris. I believe that Calontir will as well.
So that means two units carrying scutums that will need breaking. I believe
that we, the archers, are best suited for that. Baron Michel is our commander
this year and I would like to give him the tools to state what the archers can
do for Ansteorra in the ravine when asked. <br>
<br>
EdV<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 face="Segoe UI"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:"Segoe UI";font-weight:bold'><a
href="http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=EML_WLHM_GreaterGood"><font
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alt="i'm">EMAILING FOR THE GREATER GOOD<br>
</span></font><font size=1 color="#3fb555"><span style='font-size:8.0pt;
color:#3FB555'>Join me</span></font></a><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>To:
ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org<br>
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:42:06 -0500<br>
From: guylestran@aol.com<br>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery<br>
<br>
Please understand that not all Knights are against it.<br>
<br>
I see Combat Archery as a part of war and in every Kingdom in which I have had
a part in the Armt Structure I have created an Archery Captain postion.<br>
<br>
There is however a very vocial group to include some knights that feel as Mast
Pug states.<br>
<br>
As a matter of fact this past Pennsic the Atlantian King gae out 4 Sharks
Tooths(Atlantian award for valor/cool stuff on the field) to combat
archers after they pretty much decimated the other side on one of Atlantia's
end bridges.<br>
<br>
I have a crossbow that I use.<br>
<br>
Sir Guy<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: ld.blackmoon <ld.blackmoon@cox.net><br>
To: Archery within the Kingdom of Ansteorra
<ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org><br>
Sent: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:08 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div id="EC_AOLMsgPart_3_d79ad9f6-63c1-48bc-acb4-92745b8317ca">
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>greetings </span></font><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>master pug , it may be a quick and dirty version of the
history, but a very accurate one it is indeed ; )</span></font><font size=2
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>and much better written than my earlier reply.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>be safe, be happy, have fun</span></font><font size=2
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>arthur </span></font><font size=2 face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>----- Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Pug Bainter
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> 'Archery within
the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">Kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Ansteorra</st1:PlaceName></st1:place>' <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday, February
10, 2009 8:05 AM<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
[Ansteorra-archery] Survival of Combat Archery<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Good Morning,<br>
<br>
I think there is something that a few of us have seen because of our
roles<br>
in the upper archery marshal arena, that the majority of the archers have<br>
not. This viewpoint is one that gives new light onto some of the arguments<br>
when issues with Combat Archery come up. This is a very simplified history<br>
with a lot of other arguments in between, but it gives you an idea.<br>
<br>
Combat Archery was founded and there were very few archers, but they
were<br>
having fun and kept coming back despite having their ammo destroyed all the<br>
time because of the materials. In general the fighters are having a good<br>
time with it because there are so few archers that even the good ones can<br>
only make a limited amount of difference to a major battle.<br>
<br>
During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knights<br>
that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should be<br>
banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.<br>
<br>
At some point early in my fighting career (about 10-11 years ago now),<br>
Combat Archery made a big leap in effectiveness on the battle field. This<br>
effectiveness was due to two factors, the quality of the archers and the<br>
quantity of the archers. Because of this, the argument about combat archery<br>
not being safe came up and APDs were created a year or so later. This caused<br>
a lot of combat archers to drop off the field because of the anger they had<br>
or the cost/hassle of getting their equipment up to standard.<br>
<br>
During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knights<br>
that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should be<br>
banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.<br>
<br>
This was fine for a couple years and then enough archers had switched to<br>
crossbow because of the effectiveness and the quality and quantity of<br>
archers went up. Because of this, the argument about it not being safe came<br>
up because of the complex rules and there being too many styles of ammo and<br>
APD. This caused some angst and cost/hassle so some combat archers dropped<br>
off the field.<br>
<br>
During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knights<br>
that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should be<br>
banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.<br>
<br>
There was a new design of Baldar blunts (eggs) that were sold without<br>
going through the proper approval process. This caused a lot of archers to<br>
spend money since they were very effective with the way they transferred<br>
energy which meant that fighters called their shots more often. After going<br>
through some testing, these were found to be unsafe and recalled. This<br>
caused some angst and cost/hassle so some combat archers dropped off the<br>
field.<br>
<br>
During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knights<br>
that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should be<br>
banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.<br>
<br>
Things settled down and archers came back to the field. This last year,<br>
there were incidents with the recall of the one piece Baldar blunts because<br>
of a design flaw as well as with some ammo at Pennsic that started another<br>
argument about the safety of Combat Archery. This caused several years worth<br>
of Baldar blunt purchases to be replaced, as well as all UHMW ammo to have<br>
to add foam and meet previously non-existent maximum amounts of foam in<br>
front of the head rules. This caused some angst and cost/hassle but it looks<br>
like it did not cause any combat archers to drop off the field. Matter of<br>
fact, because of intelligently planning ahead and working with other<br>
kingdoms there have been few enough changes to the Ansteorran combat archers<br>
in the last several years that I think we are getting more archers back on<br>
the field.<br>
<br>
During all of this there are a vocal group of fighters including Knights<br>
that are arguing that Combat Archery is unsafe and unrealistic. It should be<br>
banned from the SCA so we can get on with fighting like real men do.<br>
<br>
There were lots of side arguments during all of this including some of
my<br>
favorites of just using plain UHMW heads without padding, getting rid of<br>
weight limits on bows, and using golf ball heads without padding. As well,<br>
some of the Kingdoms weren't as well informed during the rules changes and<br>
their archers are having some problems now. There are a couple kingdoms that<br>
have fairly light poundage on their crossbows and the most recent Society<br>
rules changes has caused a fair number of the weapons to not be legal<br>
anymore and has probably caused their archers to be angry and incur more<br>
cost to get back on the field, if they do at all right now. Fortunately for<br>
us we paid attention to the data our marshals had gathered and knew that the<br>
change would impact very few, if any, of our combat archers.<br>
<br>
So for us, our Earl Marshal, our Archery Marshals, and our Crown, we
have<br>
to figure out how to be diplomatic and logical in our fight to keep combat<br>
archery around. We have to take the moral high ground since anything else<br>
will just prove 'their' point. While we may not like it or understand why it<br>
really matters in the long run, unfortunately it sometimes means only being<br>
able to carry 15 pieces of ammo at a time in the ravine in order to have<br>
Combat Archery at all in the ravine.<br>
<br>
This is *not* to say that we just roll over whenever something stupid<br>
comes out, but it does mean we have to be well informed about the<br>
circumstances and plead a reasonable case and not an emotional knee jerk<br>
reaction. This will help combat archery to survive.<br>
<br>
Btw, the vocal group of fighters and Knights against this is a very
small<br>
group, but they are so rabid about their argument that they can cause even<br>
the most pro-archery people to throw up their arms in surrender. I was<br>
talking to a Knight about it just this weekend who had finally given up<br>
because of the way it was making him to react.<br>
<br>
Ciao,<br>
<br>
Pug Bainter<br>
Phelim Gervase called Pug<br>
Dark Horde Moritu - Barony of Bryn Gwlad - <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">Kingdom</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Ansteorra</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><br>
pug@pug.net<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ansteorra-archery mailing list<br>
Ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org<br>
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-archery-ansteorra.org <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Ansteorra-archery mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Ansteorra-archery@lists.ansteorra.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre><pre
style='background:white'><tt><font size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-archery-ansteorra.org<o:p></o:p></span></font></tt></pre></div>
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