[Ansteorra-chirurgeon] Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's list

richard hall arkellvomcophus at yahoo.com
Wed Nov 9 11:37:29 PST 2005

To everybody. I only posted this as the BOD said too.
We are still "talking" to the BOD, no offical policy has been sent by the SCG to adddress any of this. This is just to let youz guyz know that we are fighting this tooth and nail. 
And I really have no good answers at this time.
The BOD did this all on their own. They did not talk to the SCG or KCs over this. So we had no input and have no answers yet.

Lancaster Community <lcai_lcai at yahoo.com> wrote:
Master Chirurgeon Arkell vom Cophus:

Is all this meaning that the only thing that we can
have in our kits are wipes, bandages, splints, guaze
and tape? Are they truly asking us to have and do
nothing that could save a life in a life threatening
situation? How about blood pressure cuffs,
stethascopes and thermometers, can we use these items?
Are we even going to have a Chirurgeonate anymore? 

Everyone has been working so hard to make the
Chirurgeonate into a really well trained group that
can handle most anything. Are we truly going to
return to the middle ages?

I am really upset about this. I hope that we can get
this straightened out so that we can continue at least
similar to the way that we are currently working.

Journeyman Chirurgeon Annalies Pferdehirt


--- richard hall wrote:

> Ok.
> I can see where they are coming from, to an
> extent. The BOD is all about covering their ass. 
> You and I both know that lawsuits have not happened
> at the rate that they COULD have happened. A lot of
> that is due to the waivers that are in place and due
> to the fact that the Chirurgeonate as a whole has
> been good at keeping "treatment" to a minimum and by
> providing good documentation. But, I think that
> they need to realize that people will sue for NOT
> giving treatment just as fast as for giving
> treatment. The AED issue is BS. If airports,
> malls, police cars, etc. have them for "John Doe" to
> use, why can't we? They are virtually idiot proof. 
> Try to explain why one was NOT used when available
> to a grieving spouse who just lost their
> husband/wife to a massive MI that could have been
> treated with early defib. 
> I can also see the logic (though I don't agree
> with it) behind the name change. In a way it does
> imply more training than others, even if we know the
> difference. But rarely does anyone we treat at
> events even know who is apprentice/Journeyman/Master
> anyway!! They just see the red baldric and couldn't
> care the difference in the "racing stripes."
> And it's BULLSHIT about changing the CHIRURGEON
> GENERAL's name to something else. WHY? Did
> somebody get jealous because our name is different
> than everybody else's? Jeez Louise. 
> You're right. Maybe I don't want to be KC after
> all. And you can tell Eleanor I said that! 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: richard hall 
> To: xaraxene at comcast.net ; caley/penny E ; Sue Delk
> ; chrisl at vvm.com ; Carolle M. Cox 
> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:02 PM
> Subject: Fwd: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the
> chirurgeon's list
> At this time this is FYI as the JKCs r refusing to
> put this out until we get some answers that we can
> give to all. so this goes nowhere Yet!!!!!
> Arkell
> B Carlock wrote:
> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:31:01 -0800 (PST)
> From: B Carlock 
> To: kc at sca.org, "bcarlock4 at sbcglobal.net"
> ,
> Jim Carlock , Galen Ockham
> ,
> Richard Threlkeld ,
> Therasia von Tux 
> CC: 
> Subject: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's
> list
> Hello to all KCs. Ms. Cady, our Board Ombudsman,
> has sent this to me, requesting it be sent out to
> all Chirurgeons. I am sending it to you verbatim,
> and please forward it to your kingdom lists in its
> entirety. If you have concerns, comments,
> questions, ideas, please contact me at
> chirurgeon at sca.org . Ms. Cady has also included her
> directors address. 
> Thanks, 
> Eleanor
> SC
> Unto the Chirurgeons of the SCA, greetings.
> The following will come to you from the Society
> Chirurgeon's office, but
> the Board wants to offer some explanation for the
> changes.
> The structure of the Chirurgeon's office needs to be
> more in line with the
> other offices of the SCA. The titles presently used
> are somewhat confusing
> and inaccurate. For example, the term 'Chirurgeon
> General,' while clever,
> is inconsistent with other Society officers' titles
> (such as Society
> Marshal). It also implies authority over more than
> the basic first aid
> that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles of
> Apprentice, Journeyman
> and Master have connotations of a level of skill
> that the Legal Committee
> is concerned pose significant legal risk to the SCA.
> It would not be
> unreasonable for people outside of the SCA to assume
> that a Master
> Chirurgeon has a higher level of medical training
> than a Journeyman or
> Apprentice, which is not necessarily the c! ase.
> Also, the term 'Master'
> within the SCA usually indicates possession of a
> peerage-- confusion that
> is not necessary. These are changes in name only.
> What the Society
> Chirurgeon's office shall use for a new ranking
> system is to be
> determined.
> Remember that the SCA only provides first aid. Any
> advanced medical care
> is not in the purview of the SCA and will not be
> performed as an official
> function of any office of the SCA. Today, we live in
> a world with easy
> access to advanced emergency medical care that did
> not exist when the SCA
> started. The Chirurgeon's Handbook states the
> purpose of the Chirurgeons
> clearly. We need to be careful not to promote the
> perception that the SCA
> provides any care beyond what is required to earn a
> basic first aid
> certification. This policy shall be supported by not
> allowing the
> Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession
> advanced medical equipment
> such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers,
> defibrillators, etc.
> The problem is not only in using these item, but in
> storing, maintaining,
> cleaning and supplies for them. This is not allowed
> under the auspices of
> the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good Samaritan
> protection as individuals
> using them may not be trained or certified in their
> use. Having such items
> present in the Chirurgeon's area of operations
> significantly increases our
> legal risk and creates a perception that the SCA
> provides a higher level
> of medical care than we are willing or able to
> provide.
> The Board of Directors recognizes and applauds the
> volunteers who work
> within the Chirurgeonate. You are skilled,
> well-meaning and dedicated
> people. Many of you have advanced training and
> certification. The Board
> appreciates that you donate your time and skills to
> make the SCA a safer
> place to play. None of what is precluded above
> applies to what an
> individual with advanced training may decide to do
> under his or her own
> license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no
> authority over
> personal supplies. However, we do have authority
> over the Chirurgeon's
> office, and within the purview of the Chirurgeonate,
> the SCA only provides
> basic first aid. If an injured participant requires
> more than basic first
> aid, they must be referred to a medical facility.
> Chirurgeons who do more
> than that do so at their own risk, and not as an
> officer of the SCA. All
> of our large events should have paramedics and
> transport present.
> The Society Chirurgeon is currently working on these
> changes and will pass
> along further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook
> will be revised to
> reflect this. Again, these changes are being
> implemented out of necessity
> to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as a
> whole. This does not
> diminish the Chirurgeons in any way; you are very
> important in making the
> SCA events safer. This has been a long discussion
> with the Legal Committ! ee
> and is not a capricious change.
> Respectfully,
> Dena Cady - Director, SCA, Inc.
> Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's office
> _______________________________________________
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> Ansteorra-chirurgeon at ansteorra.org

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