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<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>You know,</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I really have to agree with Crandall on
this one… </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Furthermore, I don’t care what ‘rank’
I hold in the Chirurgeon’s guild… I could be Apprentice Jester for
all I care… All I give a damn about, is having equipment on hand, to do
what I was trained to do, and making sure that people know first response is
available. If I’m trained to use Oxygen and an AED, well then dang-it, if
the guy is in need of it, I’m going to use it and face the consequences
later…. I’m not going to sit back and watch someone die, because
Corporate said so… Maybe someone does need to remind the legal committee
about what happened at Gulf Wars…</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jayme Dominguez del Valle</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Shire of </span></font><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Seawinds</span></font><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>, Ansteorra</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Journeyman Chirurgeon</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+jpercer=gmail.com@ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+jpercer=gmail.com@ansteorra.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Crandall<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 09, 2005
10:18 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
ansteorra-chirurgeon@ansteorra.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE:
[Ansteorra-chirurgeon] Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd: Please post tothechirurgeon's list</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The BOD cannot tell me what I can or cannot bring to
events. Whether it is a level of knowledge or materials that save lives. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Only legal considerations or site owners can state
that certain items are considered in bad taste or will get me in jail. And thus
should not be present. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>There are those in the Chirurgeonate who save lives.
We are trained to react. We will use the tools that are appropriate to the
situation. We will save lives. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Their policy states: </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>"This policy shall be supported by not allowing
the<br>
Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession advanced medical equipment<br>
such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers, defibrillators, etc."</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>(Their misunderstanding of the term: "advanced
medical equipment" shows their ignorance.) </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Fine with me. The Chirurgeon's office will not have
them <u>in their possession</u>. </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The BOD has not been trained in the Good Samaritan
laws. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>They also state: </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>"None of what is precluded above applies to what
an<br>
individual with advanced training may decide to do under his or her own<br>
license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no authority over<br>
personal supplies." </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Never will my personal supplies will be in the
Chirurgeon's office possession. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The Chirgeonate attempted to use medieval terms to
identify honors within the system. Making an attempt at authenticity is
required by that same BOD. Heaven forbid that those who are Peers would feel
threatened by our bureauocracy. Now, "Good, Better, Best" as titles
would imply more than we want. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I suggest the following: </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>"Wanna Be" for those in training, both
mundane and SCA procedures. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>"Got A Warrant" for those who their fellows
figure are trained. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>"Atta Boy" for those who their fellows think
they did really good for a long time. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Or along the same requirements:</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Serf</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Fleam</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Ol' Bag</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>What I do want to happen is that the members of the
misguided legal committee and their litigious families please identify
themselves so that I know when I am treating them. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Crandall, Chirurgeon, Olde Foole</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>"Carolle M.
Cox" <hpockets@verizon.net></span></i></b> wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I'm sorry. What I
see is an attempt by people who have no clue about first aid, pre-hospital
care, or, g--forbid, true emergency management to manage and control people who
do.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I'm a rather opinionated
floozey, and I know it, but who cares at all what 'people outside the SCA'
think about what we call ourselves or each other? Gosh, if they're going
to freak over 'master chirurgeon', what will they do about 'King'?? </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>This puts me in mind of a
recent incident in which Chirurgeons of all 'stripes' responded to a possible
heart attack call. That man is alive, wandering around SCA events today,
because the responders applied every skill, prayer, and bit of expertise they
had, and </span></font><font color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-family:
Arial;color:blue'>EMS</span></font><font color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-family:Arial;color:blue'> was alerted quickly. Who on the BOD
or anywhere else would like to go to that man's widow and tell her that, yes,
we did have EMTs and Paramedics on site with medical-control permission to act;
yes, we did have aspirin; but we're sorry to report that we can only do basic
first aid, and so her life-long partner is dead? Right. At that point,
our Legal Committee would have a whole lot more to worry about than 'master
chirurgeon'!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>However. In time,
this situation will get worked out. Every silly idea we as a Society have
ever had has been worked out with the passage of time (witness pickle
barrels). I, personally, will strip my kit of everything I am trained to
use that would lead me to overstep basic first aid, leave the gold stripe on my
baldric, and soldier on until things come to their senses. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>May Hippocrates protect
us all </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Gerita</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a
href="mailto:DFWchinlovers@yahoogroups.com">DFWchinlovers@yahoogroups.com</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a
href="http://www.japanesechinrescue.org/">www.japanesechinrescue.org</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><a
href="http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com/">http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com</a></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>People are like stained glass
windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when darkness
sets in, their beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within. --
Elizabeth Kübler-Ross</span></font></p>
<blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b>
ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net@ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net@ansteorra.org] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>richard hall<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Wednesday, November
09, 2005</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>12:43 AM</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> chirurgeon@att.net;
chirurgeon@sca.org; kc@sca.org; chirurgeonate-ansteorra@yahoogroups.com;
ansteorra-chirurgeon@ansteorra.org<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Ansteorra-chirurgeon]
Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd: Please post to thechirurgeon's list</span></font></p>
<div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ok.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> I can see where
they are coming from, to an extent. The BOD is all about covering their
ass. You and I both know that lawsuits have not happened at the rate that
they COULD have happened. A lot of that is due to the waivers that are in
place and due to the fact that the Chirurgeonate as a whole has been good at
keeping "treatment" to a minimum and by providing good
documentation. But, I think that they need to realize that people will
sue for NOT giving treatment just as fast as for giving treatment. The
AED issue is BS. If airports, malls, police cars, etc. have them for
"John Doe" to use, why can't we? They are virtually idiot
proof. Try to explain why one was NOT used when available to a
grieving spouse who just lost their husband/wife to a massive MI that could
have been treated with early defib. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> I can also see
the logic (though I don't agree with it) behind the name change. In a way
it does <u>imply</u> more training than others, even if we know the
difference. But rarely does anyone we treat at events even know who is
apprentice/Journeyman/Master anyway!! They just see the red baldric and
couldn't care the difference in the "racing stripes."</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> And it's BULLSHIT
about changing the CHIRURGEON GENERAL's name to something else.
WHY? Did somebody get jealous because our name is different than
everybody else's? Jeez Louise. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>You're right. Maybe I don't
want to be KC after all. And you can tell Eleanor I said that! </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----- </span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<div style='font-color:black'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in;background:#E4E4E4'><b><font size=2
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:arkellvomcophus@yahoo.com" title="arkellvomcophus@yahoo.com">richard
hall</a> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>To:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> <a
href="mailto:xaraxene@comcast.net" title="xaraxene@comcast.net">xaraxene@comcast.net</a>
; <a href="mailto:medicfem@yahoo.com" title="medicfem@yahoo.com">caley/penny E</a>
; <a href="mailto:ladydds@verizon.net" title="ladydds@verizon.net">Sue Delk</a>
; <a href="mailto:chrisl@vvm.com" title="chrisl@vvm.com">chrisl@vvm.com</a> ; <a
href="mailto:hpockets@verizon.net" title="hpockets@verizon.net">Carolle M. Cox</a>
</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Tuesday,
November 08, 2005 2:02 PM</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><font size=2 face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></font></b><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> Fwd: [KC]
Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's list</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>At this time this is FYI as the JKCs r refusing to put
this out until we get some answers that we can give to all. so this goes
nowhere Yet!!!!!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Arkell<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>B Carlock <<a
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</a>></span></i></b>
wrote:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Date:
Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:31:01 -0800 (PST)<br>
From: B Carlock <<a href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:kc@sca.org">kc@sca.org</a>, "<a
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</a>" <<a
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</a>>,<br>
Jim Carlock <<a href="mailto:j-carlock@att.net">j-carlock@att.net</a>>,
Galen Ockham <<a href="mailto:galen@chirurgeon.org">galen@chirurgeon.org</a>>,<br>
Richard Threlkeld <<a href="mailto:rjt@softwareinnovation.com">rjt@softwareinnovation.com</a>>,<br>
Therasia von Tux <<a href="mailto:no1home@onewest.net">no1home@onewest.net</a>><br>
CC: <br>
Subject: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's list</span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hello to all KCs. Ms. Cady, our Board
Ombudsman, has sent this to me, requesting it be sent out to all
Chirurgeons. I am sending it to you verbatim, and please forward it to
your kingdom lists in its entirety. If you have concerns, comments,
questions, ideas, please contact me at <a href="mailto:chirurgeon@sca.org">chirurgeon@sca.org</a>
. Ms. Cady has also included her directors address. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks, </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Eleanor</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>SC</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Unto
the Chirurgeons of the SCA, greetings.<br>
<br>
The following will come to you from the Society Chirurgeon's office, but<br>
the Board wants to offer some explanation for the changes.<br>
<br>
The structure of the Chirurgeon's office needs to be more in line with the<br>
other offices of the SCA. The titles presently used are somewhat confusing<br>
and inaccurate. For example, the term 'Chirurgeon General,' while clever,<br>
is inconsistent with other Society officers' titles (such as Society<br>
Marshal). It also implies authority over more than the basic first aid<br>
that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles of Apprentice, Journeyman<br>
and Master have connotations of a level of skill that the Legal Committee<br>
is concerned pose significant legal risk to the SCA. It would not be<br>
unreasonable for people outside of the SCA to assume that a Master<br>
Chirurgeon has a higher level of medical training than a Journeyman or<br>
Apprentice, which is not necessarily the c! ! ! ase. Also, the term 'Master'<br>
within the SCA usually indicates possession of a peerage-- confusion that<br>
is not necessary. These are changes in name only. What the Society<br>
Chirurgeon's office shall use for a new ranking system is to be<br>
determined.<br>
<br>
Remember that the SCA only provides first aid. Any advanced medical care<br>
is not in the purview of the SCA and will not be performed as an official<br>
function of any office of the SCA. Today, we live in a world with easy<br>
access to advanced emergency medical care that did not exist when the SCA<br>
started. The Chirurgeon's Handbook states the purpose of the Chirurgeons<br>
clearly. We need to be careful not to promote the perception that the SCA<br>
provides any care beyond what is required to earn a basic first aid<br>
certification. This policy shall be supported by not allowing the<br>
Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession advanced medical equipment<br>
such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers, defibrillators, etc.<br>
The problem is not only in using these item, but in storing, maintaining,<br>
cleaning and supplies for them. This is not allowed under the auspices of<br>
the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good Samaritan protection as individuals<br>
using them may not be trained or certified in their use. Having such items<br>
present in the Chirurgeon's area of operations significantly increases our<br>
legal risk and creates a perception that the SCA provides a higher level<br>
of medical care than we are willing or able to provide.<br>
<br>
The Board of Directors recognizes and applauds the volunteers who work<br>
within the Chirurgeonate. You are skilled, well-meaning and dedicated<br>
people. Many of you have advanced training and certification. The Board<br>
appreciates that you donate your time and skills to make the SCA a safer<br>
place to play. None of what is precluded above applies to what an<br>
individual with advanced training may decide to do under his or her own<br>
license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no authority over<br>
personal supplies. However, we do have authority over the Chirurgeon's<br>
office, and within the purview of the Chirurgeonate, the SCA only provides<br>
basic first aid. If an injured participant requires more than basic first<br>
aid, they must be referred to a medical facility. Chirurgeons who do more<br>
than that do so at their own risk, and not as an officer of the SCA. All<br>
of our large events should have paramedics and transport present.<br>
<br>
The Society Chirurgeon is currently working on these changes and will pass<br>
along further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook will be revised to<br>
reflect this. Again, these changes are being implemented out of necessity<br>
to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as a whole. This does not<br>
diminish the Chirurgeons in any way; you are very important in making the<br>
SCA events safer. This has been a long discussion with the Legal Committ! ee<br>
and is not a capricious change.<br>
<br>
Respectfully,<br>
<br>
Dena Cady - Director, SCA, Inc.<br>
Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's office<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="mailto:DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG">DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG</a></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>From:
"drcady" <drcady@cox.net><br>
To: <chirurgeon@sca.org>, <Bethcarlock4@sbcglobal.net><br>
Subject: Please post to the chirurgeon's list<br>
Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:06:32 -0700</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Unto the Chiriurgeons of the SCA, greetings.<br>
<br>
The following will come to you from the Society Chirurgeon's office, but<br>
the Board wants to offer some explanation for the changes.<br>
<br>
The structure of the Chirurgeon's office needs to be more in line with the<br>
other offices of the SCA. The titles presently used are somewhat confusing<br>
and inaccurate. For example, the term 'Chirurgeon General,' while clever,<br>
is inconsistent with other Society officers' titles (such as Society<br>
Marshal). It also implies authority over more than the basic first aid<br>
that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles of Apprentice, Journeyman<br>
and Master have connotations of a level of skill that the Legal Committee<br>
is concerned pose significant legal risk to the SCA. It would not be<br>
unreasonable for people outside of the SCA to assume that a Master<br>
Chirurgeon has a higher level of medical training than a Journeyman or<br>
Apprentice, which is not necessarily the ! ! case. Also, the term 'Master'<br>
within the SCA usually indicates possession of a peerage-- confusion that<br>
is not necessary. These are changes in name only. What the Society<br>
Chirurgeon's office shall use for a new ranking system is to be<br>
determined.<br>
<br>
Remember that the SCA only provides first aid. Any advanced medical care<br>
is not in the purview of the SCA and will not be performed as an official<br>
function of any office of the SCA. Today, we live in a world with easy<br>
access to advanced emergency medical care that did not exist when the SCA<br>
started. The Chirurgeon's Handbook states the purpose of the Chirurgeons<br>
clearly. We need to be careful not to promote the perception that the SCA<br>
provides any care beyond what is required to earn a basic first aid<br>
certification. This policy shall be supported by not allowing the<br>
Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession advanced medical equipment<br>
such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers, defibrillators, etc.<br>
The problem is not only in using these item, but in storing, maintaining,<br>
cleaning and supplies for them. This is not allowed under the auspices of<br>
the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good Samaritan protection as individuals<br>
using them may not be trained or certified in their use. Having such items<br>
present in the Chirurgeon's area of operations significantly increases our<br>
legal risk and creates a perception that the SCA provides a higher level<br>
of medical care than we are willing or able to provide.<br>
<br>
The Board of Directors recognizes and applauds the volunteers who work<br>
within the Chirurgeonate. You are skilled, well-meaning and dedicated<br>
people. Many of you have advanced training and certification. The Board<br>
appreciates that you donate your time and skills to make the SCA a safer<br>
place to play. None of what is precluded above applies to what an<br>
individual with advanced training may decide to do under his or her own<br>
license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no authority over<br>
personal supplies. However, we do have authority over the Chirurgeon's<br>
office, and within the purview of the Chirurgeonate, the SCA only provides<br>
basic first aid. If an injured participant requires more than basic first<br>
aid, they must be referred to a medical facility. Chirurgeons who do more<br>
than that do so at their own risk, and not as an officer of the SCA. All<br>
of our large events should have paramedics and transport present.<br>
<br>
The Society Chirurgeon is currently working on these changes and will pass<br>
along further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook will be revised to<br>
reflect this. Again, these changes are being implemented out of necessity<br>
to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as a whole. This does not<br>
diminish the Chirurgeons in any way; you are very important in making the<br>
SCA events safer. This has been a long discussion with the Legal Committ! ee<br>
and is not a capricious change.<br>
<br>
Respectfully,<br>
<br>
Dena Cady - Director, SCA, Inc.<br>
Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's office<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href="mailto:DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG">DIRECTORS</a></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
KC mailing list<br>
KC@sca.org<br>
http://www.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/kc</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a/farechase.yahoo.com/">Yahoo!
FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.</a> </span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
KC mailing list<br>
KC@sca.org<br>
http://www.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/kc</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><a
href="http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a/farechase.yahoo.com/">Yahoo!
FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.</a> </span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>_______________________________________________<br>
Ansteorra-chirurgeon mailing list<br>
Ansteorra-chirurgeon@ansteorra.org<br>
http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra-chirurgeon</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
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