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<DIV><SPAN class=697483313-09112005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I'm
sorry. What I see is an attempt by people who have no clue about first
aid, pre-hospital care, or, g--forbid, true emergency management to manage and
control people who do.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=697483313-09112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=697483313-09112005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>I'm a rather
opinionated floozey, and I know it, but who cares at all what 'people outside
the SCA' think about what we call ourselves or each other? Gosh, if
they're going to freak over 'master chirurgeon', what will they do about
'King'?? </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=697483313-09112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=697483313-09112005>This
puts me in mind of a recent incident in which Chirurgeons of all 'stripes'
responded to a possible heart attack call. That man is alive, wandering
around SCA events today, because the responders applied every skill, prayer, and
bit of expertise they had, and EMS was alerted quickly. Who on the BOD or
anywhere else would like to go to that man's widow and tell her that, yes, we
did have EMTs and Paramedics on site with medical-control permission to act;
yes, we did have aspirin; but we're sorry to report that we can only do basic
first aid, and so her life-long partner is dead? Right. At that point, our
Legal Committee would have a whole lot more to worry about than 'master
chirurgeon'!</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=697483313-09112005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=697483313-09112005>However. In time, this situation will get worked
out. Every silly idea we as a Society have ever had has been worked out
with the passage of time (witness pickle barrels). I, personally, will
strip my kit of everything I am trained to use that would lead me to overstep
basic first aid, leave the gold stripe on my baldric, and soldier on until
things come to their senses. </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=697483313-09112005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN class=697483313-09112005>May
Hippocrates protect us all </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=697483313-09112005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=697483313-09112005>Gerita</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=697483313-09112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="mailto:DFWchinlovers@yahoogroups.com">DFWchinlovers@yahoogroups.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://www.japanesechinrescue.org/">www.japanesechinrescue.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com/">http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>People are like stained glass
windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when darkness
sets in, their beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within. --
Elizabeth Kübler-Ross</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net@ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net@ansteorra.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>richard hall<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 09, 2005 12:43
AM<BR><B>To:</B> chirurgeon@att.net; chirurgeon@sca.org; kc@sca.org;
chirurgeonate-ansteorra@yahoogroups.com;
ansteorra-chirurgeon@ansteorra.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Ansteorra-chirurgeon]
Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd: Please post to thechirurgeon's list<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Ok.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I can see where they are
coming from, to an extent. The BOD is all about covering their
ass. You and I both know that lawsuits have not happened at the rate
that they COULD have happened. A lot of that is due to the waivers
that are in place and due to the fact that the Chirurgeonate as a whole has
been good at keeping "treatment" to a minimum and by providing good
documentation. But, I think that they need to realize that people will
sue for NOT giving treatment just as fast as for giving treatment. The
AED issue is BS. If airports, malls, police cars, etc. have them for
"John Doe" to use, why can't we? They are virtually idiot proof.
Try to explain why one was NOT used when available to a grieving spouse
who just lost their husband/wife to a massive MI that could have been
treated with early defib. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> I can also see the logic
(though I don't agree with it) behind the name change. In a way it
does <U>imply</U> more training than others, even if we know the
difference. But rarely does anyone we treat at events even know who is
apprentice/Journeyman/Master anyway!! They just see the red baldric
and couldn't care the difference in the "racing stripes."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> And it's BULLSHIT about
changing the CHIRURGEON GENERAL's name to something else. WHY?
Did somebody get jealous because our name is different than everybody
else's? Jeez Louise. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You're right. Maybe I don't want to be KC
after all. And you can tell Eleanor I said that! </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=arkellvomcophus@yahoo.com
href="mailto:arkellvomcophus@yahoo.com">richard hall</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=xaraxene@comcast.net
href="mailto:xaraxene@comcast.net">xaraxene@comcast.net</A> ; <A
title=medicfem@yahoo.com href="mailto:medicfem@yahoo.com">caley/penny
E</A> ; <A title=ladydds@verizon.net href="mailto:ladydds@verizon.net">Sue
Delk</A> ; <A title=chrisl@vvm.com
href="mailto:chrisl@vvm.com">chrisl@vvm.com</A> ; <A
title=hpockets@verizon.net href="mailto:hpockets@verizon.net">Carolle M.
Cox</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Fwd: [KC] Fwd: Please post
to the chirurgeon's list</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>At this time this is FYI as the JKCs r refusing to put this out until
we get some answers that we can give to all. so this goes nowhere
Yet!!!!!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Arkell<BR><BR><B><I>B Carlock <<A
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Date:
Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:31:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: B Carlock <<A
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</A>><BR>To:
<A href="mailto:kc@sca.org">kc@sca.org</A>, "<A
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</A>"
<<A
href="mailto:bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net">bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net</A>>,<BR>Jim
Carlock <<A
href="mailto:j-carlock@att.net">j-carlock@att.net</A>>, Galen Ockham
<<A
href="mailto:galen@chirurgeon.org">galen@chirurgeon.org</A>>,<BR>Richard
Threlkeld <<A
href="mailto:rjt@softwareinnovation.com">rjt@softwareinnovation.com</A>>,<BR>Therasia
von Tux <<A
href="mailto:no1home@onewest.net">no1home@onewest.net</A>><BR>CC:
<BR>Subject: [KC] Fwd: Please post to the chirurgeon's list<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hello to all KCs. Ms. Cady, our Board Ombudsman, has
sent this to me, requesting it be sent out to all Chirurgeons. I
am sending it to you verbatim, and please forward it to your kingdom
lists in its entirety. If you have concerns, comments, questions,
ideas, please contact me at <A
href="mailto:chirurgeon@sca.org">chirurgeon@sca.org</A> . Ms. Cady
has also included her directors address. </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks, </DIV>
<DIV>Eleanor</DIV>
<DIV>SC</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Unto the Chirurgeons of the SCA, greetings.<BR><BR>The following
will come to you from the Society Chirurgeon's office, but<BR>the Board
wants to offer some explanation for the changes.<BR><BR>The structure of
the Chirurgeon's office needs to be more in line with the<BR>other
offices of the SCA. The titles presently used are somewhat
confusing<BR>and inaccurate. For example, the term 'Chirurgeon General,'
while clever,<BR>is inconsistent with other Society officers' titles
(such as Society<BR>Marshal). It also implies authority over more than
the basic first aid<BR>that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles
of Apprentice, Journeyman<BR>and Master have connotations of a level of
skill that the Legal Committee<BR>is concerned pose significant legal
risk to the SCA. It would not be<BR>unreasonable for people outside of
the SCA to assume that a Master<BR>Chirurgeon has a higher level of
medical training than a Journeyman or<BR>Apprentice, which is not
necessarily the c! ! ase. Also, the term 'Master'<BR>within the SCA
usually indicates possession of a peerage-- confusion that<BR>is not
necessary. These are changes in name only. What the
Society<BR>Chirurgeon's office shall use for a new ranking system is to
be<BR>determined.<BR><BR>Remember that the SCA only provides first aid.
Any advanced medical care<BR>is not in the purview of the SCA and will
not be performed as an official<BR>function of any office of the SCA.
Today, we live in a world with easy<BR>access to advanced emergency
medical care that did not exist when the SCA<BR>started. The
Chirurgeon's Handbook states the purpose of the Chirurgeons<BR>clearly.
We need to be careful not to promote the perception that the
SCA<BR>provides any care beyond what is required to earn a basic first
aid<BR>certification. This policy shall be supported by not allowing
the<BR>Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession advanced medical
equipment<BR>such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers,
defibrillators, etc.<BR>The problem is not only in using these item, but
in storing, maintaining,<BR>cleaning and supplies for them. This is not
allowed under the auspices of<BR>the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good
Samaritan protection as individuals<BR>using them may not be trained or
certified in their use. Having such items<BR>present in the Chirurgeon's
area of operations significantly increases our<BR>legal risk and creates
a perception that the SCA provides a higher level<BR>of medical care
than we are willing or able to provide.<BR><BR>The Board of Directors
recognizes and applauds the volunteers who work<BR>within the
Chirurgeonate. You are skilled, well-meaning and dedicated<BR>people.
Many of you have advanced training and certification. The
Board<BR>appreciates that you donate your time and skills to make the
SCA a safer<BR>place to play. None of what is precluded above applies to
what an<BR>individual with advanced training may decide to do under his
or her own<BR>license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no
authority over<BR>personal supplies. However, we do have authority over
the Chirurgeon's<BR>office, and within the purview of the Chirurgeonate,
the SCA only provides<BR>basic first aid. If an injured participant
requires more than basic first<BR>aid, they must be referred to a
medical facility. Chirurgeons who do more<BR>than that do so at their
own risk, and not as an officer of the SCA. All<BR>of our large events
should have paramedics and transport present.<BR><BR>The Society
Chirurgeon is currently working on these changes and will pass<BR>along
further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook will be revised
to<BR>reflect this. Again, these changes are being implemented out of
necessity<BR>to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as a whole.
This does not<BR>diminish the Chirurgeons in any way; you are very
important in making the<BR>SCA events safer. This has been a long
discussion with the Legal Committ! ee<BR>and is not a capricious
change.<BR><BR>Respectfully,<BR><BR>Dena Cady - Director, SCA,
Inc.<BR>Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's
office<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="mailto:DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG">DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG</A><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV>From:
"drcady" <drcady@cox.net><BR>To: <chirurgeon@sca.org>,
<Bethcarlock4@sbcglobal.net><BR>Subject: Please post to the
chirurgeon's list<BR>Date: Mon, 7 Nov 2005 18:06:32 -0700<BR><BR>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV>Unto the Chiriurgeons of the SCA, greetings.<BR><BR>The following
will come to you from the Society Chirurgeon's office, but<BR>the Board
wants to offer some explanation for the changes.<BR><BR>The structure of
the Chirurgeon's office needs to be more in line with the<BR>other
offices of the SCA. The titles presently used are somewhat
confusing<BR>and inaccurate. For example, the term 'Chirurgeon General,'
while clever,<BR>is inconsistent with other Society officers' titles
(such as Society<BR>Marshal). It also implies authority over more than
the basic first aid<BR>that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles
of Apprentice, Journeyman<BR>and Master have connotations of a level of
skill that the Legal Committee<BR>is concerned pose significant legal
risk to the SCA. It would not be<BR>unreasonable for people outside of
the SCA to assume that a Master<BR>Chirurgeon has a higher level of
medical training than a Journeyman or<BR>Apprentice, which is not
necessarily the ! case. Also, the term 'Master'<BR>within the SCA
usually indicates possession of a peerage-- confusion that<BR>is not
necessary. These are changes in name only. What the
Society<BR>Chirurgeon's office shall use for a new ranking system is to
be<BR>determined.<BR><BR>Remember that the SCA only provides first aid.
Any advanced medical care<BR>is not in the purview of the SCA and will
not be performed as an official<BR>function of any office of the SCA.
Today, we live in a world with easy<BR>access to advanced emergency
medical care that did not exist when the SCA<BR>started. The
Chirurgeon's Handbook states the purpose of the Chirurgeons<BR>clearly.
We need to be careful not to promote the perception that the
SCA<BR>provides any care beyond what is required to earn a basic first
aid<BR>certification. This policy shall be supported by not allowing
the<BR>Chirurgeon's office to have in its possession advanced medical
equipment<BR>such as medications, IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers,
defibrillators, etc.<BR>The problem is not only in using these item, but
in storing, maintaining,<BR>cleaning and supplies for them. This is not
allowed under the auspices of<BR>the SCA, covered by insurance, or Good
Samaritan protection as individuals<BR>using them may not be trained or
certified in their use. Having such items<BR>present in the Chirurgeon's
area of operations significantly increases our<BR>legal risk and creates
a perception that the SCA provides a higher level<BR>of medical care
than we are willing or able to provide.<BR><BR>The Board of Directors
recognizes and applauds the volunteers who work<BR>within the
Chirurgeonate. You are skilled, well-meaning and dedicated<BR>people.
Many of you have advanced training and certification. The
Board<BR>appreciates that you donate your time and skills to make the
SCA a safer<BR>place to play. None of what is precluded above applies to
what an<BR>individual with advanced training may decide to do under his
or her own<BR>license and with their own equipment. The SCA has no
authority over<BR>personal supplies. However, we do have authority over
the Chirurgeon's<BR>office, and within the purview of the Chirurgeonate,
the SCA only provides<BR>basic first aid. If an injured participant
requires more than basic first<BR>aid, they must be referred to a
medical facility. Chirurgeons who do more<BR>than that do so at their
own risk, and not as an officer of the SCA. All<BR>of our large events
should have paramedics and transport present.<BR><BR>The Society
Chirurgeon is currently working on these changes and will pass<BR>along
further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook will be revised
to<BR>reflect this. Again, these changes are being implemented out of
necessity<BR>to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as a whole.
This does not<BR>diminish the Chirurgeons in any way; you are very
important in making the<BR>SCA events safer. This has been a long
discussion with the Legal Committ! ee<BR>and is not a capricious
change.<BR><BR>Respectfully,<BR><BR>Dena Cady - Director, SCA,
Inc.<BR>Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's
office<BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR><A
href="mailto:DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG">DIRECTORS</A></DIV>_______________________________________________<BR>KC
mailing
list<BR>KC@sca.org<BR>http://www.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/kc<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<P></P>_______________________________________________<BR>KC mailing
list<BR>KC@sca.org<BR>http://www.sca.org/mailman/listinfo/kc<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
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