<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2769" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=717274619-09112005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Yeah, well,
Herr Arkell - from the list of people in Ansteorra who have responded, and the
tone of their responses, I guess you'll know just what to say if the BOD ever
lowers itself to consider the opinions of the people who play the game,
eh?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=717274619-09112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=717274619-09112005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff>Gerita</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="mailto:DFWchinlovers@yahoogroups.com">DFWchinlovers@yahoogroups.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://www.japanesechinrescue.org/">www.japanesechinrescue.org</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2><A
href="http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com/">http://carollesknitting.blogspot.com</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=left> </DIV>
<DIV align=left><FONT face=Arial size=2>People are like stained glass
windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when darkness
sets in, their beauty is revealed only if there is a light from within. --
Elizabeth Kübler-Ross</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net@ansteorra.org
[mailto:ansteorra-chirurgeon-bounces+hpockets=verizon.net@ansteorra.org] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>richard hall<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, November 09, 2005 1:37
PM<BR><B>To:</B> Kingdom of Ansteorra Chirurgeon
discussions<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Ansteorra-chirurgeon] Fwd: Re: [KC] Fwd:
Please post to thechirurgeon's list<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>To everybody. I only posted this as the BOD said too.</DIV>
<DIV>We are still "talking" to the BOD, no offical policy has been sent by the
SCG to adddress any of this. This is just to let youz guyz know that we are
fighting this tooth and nail. </DIV>
<DIV>And I really have no good answers at this time.</DIV>
<DIV>The BOD did this all on their own. They did not talk to the SCG or KCs
over this. So we had no input and have no answers yet.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Arkell <BR><BR><B><I>Lancaster Community
<lcai_lcai@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Master
Chirurgeon Arkell vom Cophus:<BR><BR>Is all this meaning that the only thing
that we can<BR>have in our kits are wipes, bandages, splints, guaze<BR>and
tape? Are they truly asking us to have and do<BR>nothing that could save a
life in a life threatening<BR>situation? How about blood pressure
cuffs,<BR>stethascopes and thermometers, can we use these items?<BR>Are we
even going to have a Chirurgeonate anymore? <BR><BR>Everyone has been
working so hard to make the<BR>Chirurgeonate into a really well trained
group that<BR>can handle most anything. Are we truly going to<BR>return to
the middle ages?<BR><BR>I am really upset about this. I hope that we can
get<BR>this straightened out so that we can continue at least<BR>similar to
the way that we are currently working.<BR><BR>Journeyman Chirurgeon Annalies
Pferdehirt<BR><BR>Annalies<BR><BR>--- richard hall
<ARKELLVOMCOPHUS@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR><BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
Ok.<BR>> <BR>> I can see where they are coming from, to an<BR>>
extent. The BOD is all about covering their ass. <BR>> You and I both
know that lawsuits have not happened<BR>> at the rate that they COULD
have happened. A lot of<BR>> that is due to the waivers that are in place
and due<BR>> to the fact that the Chirurgeonate as a whole has<BR>>
been good at keeping "treatment" to a minimum and by<BR>> providing good
documentation. But, I think that<BR>> they need to realize that people
will sue for NOT<BR>> giving treatment just as fast as for giving<BR>>
treatment. The AED issue is BS. If airports,<BR>> malls, police cars,
etc. have them for "John Doe" to<BR>> use, why can't we? They are
virtually idiot proof. <BR>> Try to explain why one was NOT used when
available<BR>> to a grieving spouse who just lost their<BR>>
husband/wife to a massive MI that co! uld have been<BR>> treated with
early defib. <BR>> I can also see the logic (though I don't agree<BR>>
with it) behind the name change. In a way it does<BR>> imply more
training than others, even if we know the<BR>> difference. But rarely
does anyone we treat at<BR>> events even know who is
apprentice/Journeyman/Master<BR>> anyway!! They just see the red baldric
and couldn't<BR>> care the difference in the "racing stripes."<BR>>
<BR>> And it's BULLSHIT about changing the CHIRURGEON<BR>> GENERAL's
name to something else. WHY? Did<BR>> somebody get jealous because our
name is different<BR>> than everybody else's? Jeez Louise. <BR>>
<BR>> You're right. Maybe I don't want to be KC after<BR>> all. And
you can tell Eleanor I said that! <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: richard hall <BR>> To: xaraxene@comcast.net
; caley/penny E ; Sue Delk<BR>> ; chrisl@vvm.com ; Carolle M. Cox
<BR>> Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:02 PM<BR>> Subject: Fwd: [KC]
Fwd: Please post to the<BR>> chirurgeon's list<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
At this time this is FYI as the JKCs r refusing to<BR>> put this out
until we get some answers that we can<BR>> give to all. so this goes
nowhere Yet!!!!!<BR>> <BR>> Arkell<BR>> <BR>> B Carlock
<BCARLOCK4@SBCGLOBAL.NET>wrote:<BR>> Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 09:31:01 -0800
(PST)<BR>> From: B Carlock <BCARLOCK4@SBCGLOBAL.NET><BR>> To:
kc@sca.org, "bcarlock4@sbcglobal.net"<BR>>
<BCARLOCK4@SBCGLOBAL.NET>,<BR>> Jim Carlock <J-CARLOCK@ATT.NET>, Galen
Ockham<BR>> <GALEN@CHIRURGEON.ORG>,<BR>> Richard Threlkeld
<RJT@SOFTWAREINNOVATION.COM>,<BR>> Therasia von Tux
<NO1HOME@ONEWEST.NET><BR>> CC: <BR>> Subject: [KC] Fwd: Please post to
the chirurgeon's<BR>> list<BR>> <BR>> Hello to all KCs. Ms. Cady,
our Board Ombudsman,<BR>> has sent this to me, requesting it be sent out
to<BR>> all Chirurgeons. I am s! ending it to you verbatim,<BR>> and
please forward it to your kingdom lists in its<BR>> entirety. If you have
concerns, comments,<BR>> questions, ideas, please contact me at<BR>>
chirurgeon@sca.org . Ms. Cady has also included her<BR>> directors
address. <BR>> Thanks, <BR>> Eleanor<BR>> SC<BR>> <BR>> Unto
the Chirurgeons of the SCA, greetings.<BR>> <BR>> The following will
come to you from the Society<BR>> Chirurgeon's office, but<BR>> the
Board wants to offer some explanation for the<BR>> changes.<BR>>
<BR>> The structure of the Chirurgeon's office needs to be<BR>> more
in line with the<BR>> other offices of the SCA. The titles presently
used<BR>> are somewhat confusing<BR>> and inaccurate. For example, the
term 'Chirurgeon<BR>> General,' while clever,<BR>> is inconsistent
with other Society officers' titles<BR>> (such as Society<BR>>
Marshal). It also implies authority over more than<BR>> the basic first
aid<BR>> that the SCA provides. Additionally, the titles of<BR>>
Apprentice, Journeyman<BR>> and Master have connotations of a level of
skill<BR>> that the Legal Committee<BR>> is concerned pose significant
legal risk to the SCA.<BR>> It would not be<BR>> unreasonable for
people outside of the SCA to assume<BR>> that a Master<BR>> Chirurgeon
has a higher level of medical training<BR>> than a Journeyman or<BR>>
Apprentice, which is not necessarily the c! ase.<BR>> Also, the term
'Master'<BR>> within the SCA usually indicates possession of a<BR>>
peerage-- confusion that<BR>> is not necessary. These are changes in name
only.<BR>> What the Society<BR>> Chirurgeon's office shall use for a
new ranking<BR>> system is to be<BR>> determined.<BR>> <BR>>
Remember that the SCA only provides first aid. Any<BR>> advanced medical
care<BR>> is not in the purview of the SCA and will not be<BR>>
performed as an official! <BR>> function of any office of the SCA. Today,
we live in<BR>> a world with easy<BR>> access to advanced emergency
medical care that did<BR>> not exist when the SCA<BR>> started. The
Chirurgeon's Handbook states the<BR>> purpose of the Chirurgeons<BR>>
clearly. We need to be careful not to promote the<BR>> perception that
the SCA<BR>> provides any care beyond what is required to earn a<BR>>
basic first aid<BR>> certification. This policy shall be supported by
not<BR>> allowing the<BR>> Chirurgeon's office to have in its
possession<BR>> advanced medical equipment<BR>> such as medications,
IVs, oxygen tanks, nebulizers,<BR>> defibrillators, etc.<BR>> The
problem is not only in using these item, but in<BR>> storing,
maintaining,<BR>> cleaning and supplies for them. This is not
allowed<BR>> under the auspices of<BR>> the SCA, covered by insurance,
or Good Samaritan<BR>> protection as individuals<BR>> using them may
no! t be trained or certified in their<BR>> use. Having such
items<BR>> present in the Chirurgeon's area of operations<BR>>
significantly increases our<BR>> legal risk and creates a perception that
the SCA<BR>> provides a higher level<BR>> of medical care than we are
willing or able to<BR>> provide.<BR>> <BR>> The Board of Directors
recognizes and applauds the<BR>> volunteers who work<BR>> within the
Chirurgeonate. You are skilled,<BR>> well-meaning and dedicated<BR>>
people. Many of you have advanced training and<BR>> certification. The
Board<BR>> appreciates that you donate your time and skills to<BR>>
make the SCA a safer<BR>> place to play. None of what is precluded
above<BR>> applies to what an<BR>> individual with advanced training
may decide to do<BR>> under his or her own<BR>> license and with their
own equipment. The SCA has no<BR>> authority over<BR>> personal
supplies. However, we do have authority<BR>&g! t; over the
Chirurgeon's<BR>> office, and within the purview of the
Chirurgeonate,<BR>> the SCA only provides<BR>> basic first aid. If an
injured participant requires<BR>> more than basic first<BR>> aid, they
must be referred to a medical facility.<BR>> Chirurgeons who do
more<BR>> than that do so at their own risk, and not as an<BR>>
officer of the SCA. All<BR>> of our large events should have paramedics
and<BR>> transport present.<BR>> <BR>> The Society Chirurgeon is
currently working on these<BR>> changes and will pass<BR>> along
further information. The Chirurgeon's Handbook<BR>> will be revised
to<BR>> reflect this. Again, these changes are being<BR>> implemented
out of necessity<BR>> to decrease risk to the SCA and its membership as
a<BR>> whole. This does not<BR>> diminish the Chirurgeons in any way;
you are very<BR>> important in making the<BR>> SCA events safer. This
has been a long discussion<BR>> with t! he Legal Committ! ee<BR>> and
is not a capricious change.<BR>> <BR>> Respectfully,<BR>> <BR>>
Dena Cady - Director, SCA, Inc.<BR>> Ombudsman to the Chirurgeon's
office<BR>> <BR>>
_______________________________________________<BR>>
DIRECTORS@SCA.ORG<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>=== message truncated
===><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>>
Ansteorra-chirurgeon mailing list<BR>>
Ansteorra-chirurgeon@ansteorra.org<BR>><BR>http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra-chirurgeon<BR>>
<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>__________________________________ <BR>Yahoo! FareChase:
Search multiple travel sites in one
click.<BR>http://farechase.yahoo.com<BR>_______________________________________________<BR>Ansteorra-chirurgeon
mailing
list<BR>Ansteorra-chirurgeon@ansteorra.org<BR>http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/ansteorra-chirurgeon<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P>
<HR SIZE=1>
<A
href="http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTFqODRtdXQ4BF9TAzMyOTc1MDIEX3MDOTY2ODgxNjkEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWwtZm9vdGVyBHNsawNmYw--/SIG=110oav78o/**http%3a//farechase.yahoo.com/">Yahoo!
FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click.</A>
</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>