[Anst-dancers] Fall Arts Symposium - Dance Business

ORDERS_DONITA_L at Lilly.com ORDERS_DONITA_L at Lilly.com
Mon Nov 3 06:05:57 PST 2003

I have been reading this list for over 4 months, just to see if I would 
like to join the dance community.  I thought it would be a good idea to 
'get a feel' for it online before I set foot in a practice.  Well, now I 
have a feel for it, and it is not good.  Would the host/hostess please 
remove me from recieving this list?  Thank you,
Lady Toryn Seven-Stitches

Russell Kinder <russmax at sbcglobal.net>
Sent by: ansteorra-dancers-bounces at ansteorra.org
10/31/2003 08:40 PM
Please respond to Ansteorran Dancers

        To:     Ansteorran Dancers <ansteorra-dancers at ansteorra.org>
        Subject:        Re: [Anst-dancers] Fall Arts Symposium - Dance Business

Pug, Pug,

I had no idea you hated me so much. It is apparent that your feelings 
against me are about far more than a few issues of creative control 
regarding the manual and the web site. Your attack against me is 
totally inappropriate, and Ariane is right, it should have been sent as 
a private e-mail. If you had stuck to the issues and refrained from 
personal attacks then it would have been OK. Since this is a public 
forum, I'll not respond in kind.

> Hell, I
> actually think that you suck as an instructor

Um, this is never, ever an appropriate thing to say on a public list. 
Sure, I suck as an instructor. That must be why I have one of the 
largest practices in Ansteorra, with 20+ dancers every Monday night. 
That must be why my students thank me and praise me so much after every 
practice. While I'll never claim to be Ansteorra's best dance 
instructor, I certainly don't suck at it. There are many on this list 
who can vouch for that.

I think what you're really trying to say is that I suck as a person. 
Well, you're probably right, but that's very much beside the point 
here, and not an appropriate topic to this list.

>> I've decided that we have 2 alternatives. The first is to resign
>> Isabeau and myself as Dance Manual compilers and web scribes. The
>> second is to go on as we have been doing, taking all your discussion
>> under advisement.
>  "We're going to either take our
> ball and go home or you're going do it our way"

While it could be interpreted that way, that is not how the statement 
was meant. What we mean to say is that we are happy to do the work. We 
are happy to incorporate other's suggestions when they are good and 
feasible. We like getting lots of input. We like lots of the great 
ideas we receive from fellow dancers. We are not smart enough to think 
of all of these things ourselves.

Here are some suggestions that have been given, and implemented:
1. Number of dancers for each dance should be given in the table of 
2. Each dance should have an attribution line for the reconstructer or 
choreographer (actually it has been this since Edition 1, revision 1 of 
the Nordsteorra manual.)
3. There should be a Who's Who in Ansteorran dance in an appendix in 
the manual.
4. Reconstruction credits should be given in the back, as well as in 
the dance reconstruction.
5. Glossary of terms should go in the back instead of the front.

We don't like being dictated to. Not all ideas are good ones. Design by 
committee is never a good idea. Everyone probably has a different 
vision of what the manual should be like. In the end, only one person 
gets to have the final say. This is simply for quality control.

What I meant was that if we are not going to have enough control to 
ensure the quality of the documents (web page & manual), then we cease 
to want to be the ones whose names are given as the authors/editors. We 
would still be more than happy to do lots of work for dance in the 

> Second, I am going to follow the desires of the Proctor with regards 
> tot
> he website. IF you want to appeal this, please appeal it to the Kingdom
> MoAS and if you still aren't satisfied the Crown.

Which is exactly as you should do. My issues were completely not with 
you. But if this resolves itself in a way that I can't accept, rather 
than create a big stink and huge bad feelings all around, I'll simply 
walk away, and let others do the work.

> Finally, I see that you have already ran Lowrie off by being such a big
> pain in the ass. This type of behavior is what gives the dancers a bad
> rep and you are the best example of this I've seen in a *long* time. I
> feel sorry for the few people on here that are just remotely interested
> in dance and get a bad taste in their mount because of your childish 
> and
> self-centered behavior. Get over yourselves.

I am sorry that Lowrie was run off. That was not intended. When we were 
consulted about who we wanted to do the programming, some issues were 
discussed in confidence. If those things got back to Lowrie, that was 
not our doing, and it was, in fact a betrayal of our confidence. Now I 
need to have a private discussion with Lowrie, before this gets blown 
out of proportion any further.

If you want to attack me further, please do it privately.

Guillaume de Troyes

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