[Ansteorra-marshals] Rawhide swords

[Gene Hosey]

back in the day swords were wrapped in rubber garden hoses then taped for opponents that needed a little firmer hit, and rawhide, leather, is a problem? silly

and the belief that a rawhide wrapped 11/4" sword has less flex than BDR 21/2" rattan, which is legal, is also pure silliness 

it is leather folks, and leather has always been legal 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:17 PM, Liam Gordon <cenliamgordon2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Issue 1: I have used rawhide for various purposes in my time in the SCA. I
> have never seen rawhide become so rigid that it doesn't flex when it's dry.
> I have rawhide at the house that I can bend and fold by hand. I don't
> forsee this being an issue.
> 
> Issue 2: Again, rawhide, when dry is not rigid. There is still a flex to
> it. The rattan will still be able to flex when encased in rawhide.
> 
> Issue 3 (from William Holder's email): I have a rawhide encased sword at
> the house that has been waiting for a basket hilt. The edges have not
> curled up. I don't see that as a reason to keep the swords off the field.
> It is sewn together keeping the edges close together and tight to the
> sword.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Liam
>> On Feb 24, 2016 16:19, "Earl Marshal" <kingdom at marshal.ansteorra.org> wrote:
>> 
>> from the Earl Marshals' perspective, there are two rules I think bear
>> discussion (entire section included below):
>> 
>> 1. With the exception of the hilts, guards and pommels, no metal or
>> ****non-approved rigid, granular****, or liquid material may be used in the
>> construction of single or two-handed weapons including spears.
>> 11. Rattan shall not be treated in any way that will substantially reduce
>> its flexibility (e.g., treated with wax, resin, fiberglass, etc.).
>> 
>> So therein lies my real queries.
>> 
>> Does wetting down rawhide, wrapping it around a sword, and then allowing it
>> to shrink and harden "substantially reduce it's flexibility"?
>> 
>> or
>> 
>> Is rawhide a non-approved rigid material?
>> 
>> Thoughts,
>> Jean Paul
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 1. With the exception of the hilts, guards and pommels, no metal or
>> non-approved rigid, granular, or liquid material may be used in the
>> construction of single or two-handed weapons including spears.
>> 2. Primary weapons used single-handed shall have a wrist strap (or
>> equivalent restraint) which will keep the weapon from leaving the immediate
>> area of the user if released during any part of a bout or combat.
>> Restraints are not required on hafted weapons used single-handed, or on
>> single-handed back-up weapons.
>> 3. Flails are expressly prohibited.
>> 4. Mechanical devices known as “sliders,” which are used to guide or propel
>> spears, are prohibited.
>> 5. All weapons shall have all cutting edges and thrusting tips marked in a
>> contrasting color.
>> 6. The striking surfaces of all weapons, including the tip, shall be
>> wrapped in a manner that allows no rattan splinters to protrude.
>> 7. All thrusting tips and striking heads must be securely attached to the
>> weapon.
>> 8. The edges and tips of all striking surfaces shall be rounded.
>> 9. No part of a weapon shall have sharp edges or protrusions with
>> cross-section of less than 1.25 inch (31.8mm) in diameter. Guards, pommels,
>> hooks, etc., shall be firmly and securely affixed to the weapon haft.
>> 10. It shall not be possible to force into a legal face guard, any part of
>> a weapon which may reasonably be expected to contact an opponent during
>> combat more than .5 inch (12.7 mm). Rattan weapons may have a handle
>> section which is less than 1.25 inch (31.8 mm), so long as it meets this
>> criterion. Combat archery shafts may be thinner as long as the head and
>> tail meet the criteria.
>> 11. Rattan shall not be treated in any way that will substantially reduce
>> its flexibility (e.g., treated with wax, resin, fiberglass, etc.).
>> 12. No weapon shall exceed 6 pounds (2.73 kg).
>> 13. No missile weapons intended to simulate firearms, slings, slingstaffs,
>> nor atlatls can be used on the field of armored combat.
>> 14. No “punch weapons” or thrusting weapons that have the blade or tip more
>> perpendicular than parallel to the grip.
>> 15. No shovel handles on any thrusting weapon.
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Liam Gordon <cenliamgordon2005 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> JP,
>>> 
>>> I have looked at these types of swords, and I have been hit with these
>>> types of swords. With the rawhide encasing the sword, it covers the
>> rattan
>>> better than strapping tape. The rawhide, for the most part, completely
>>> encases the sword. If the sword fails and breaks, I think it will stay
>>> inside the rawhide with no issues what so ever...
>>> 
>>> I don't believe these need to be considered experimental at all...
>>> 
>>> My thoughts on the matter.
>>> 
>>> Cheers!
>>> Liam
>>> On Feb 24, 2016 15:45, "Earl Marshal" <kingdom at marshal.ansteorra.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I'm curious if these weapons comply with our standard construction
>> rules,
>>>> or if they should be considered experimental.
>>>> 
>>>> Thoughts?
>>>> 
>>>> Jean Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 18, 2016 at 6:36 AM, <sethrcagle at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> My group uses the rawhide covered swords, we took it from An Tir who
>> it
>>>>> seems like every other person has a raw hide covered sword. What do
>> you
>>>>> want to know? It's just a covering for the sword instead of using
>> tape.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sven
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2016, at 12:11 PM, Earl Marshal <
>>>>>> kingdom at marshal.ansteorra.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So, who's experimented with them?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> JP
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