[Ansteorra-marshals] Rawhide swords

Thu Feb 25 06:17:59 PST 2016

An Tir does not have rawhide listed in their weapons standards unfortunately. 

Absolon

> On Feb 25, 2016, at 05:57, Liam Gordon <cenliamgordon2005 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Something else that we can do is reach out to other kingdoms where we know
> people are using rawhide wrapped swords and see what their kingdom rules
> are, and if those people using the swords have had any issues with them.
>> On Feb 25, 2016 4:55 AM, "Gene Hosey" <genehosey at icloud.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Once you have done your tests then what? as in what degree of loss of
>> flexibility is ok and what degree of loss of flexibility is not ok? and if
>> a certain level of flexibility is not ok do we now test every sword at each
>> event to ensure it has the proper flexibility? old swords are less flexible
>> than new swords so do we start dating the time made to pull them when old?
>> 
>> I think this is more about who is using the swords than it is actually
>> about the swords themselves
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 25, 2016, at 2:39 AM, Andreas von Meißen <scamiz at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A better test would be a cantilever beam flex test, like used for
>> rapiers.
>>> Also, as tape leaves a residue and doesn't come off easily, a better
>> order
>>> would be 1) bare, 2) rawhide, 3) tape.
>>> You'd also need to do several sticks of a range of lengths and degree of
>>> shavedness to get several data points.
>>> So yeah. Science.
>>> 
>>> -- Andreas, who is grading structural dynamics lab reports and has such
>>> things on his mind.
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:25 PM, Chuck Kaun <jack_a_lope31 at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Instead of arguing about this, someone do an experiment.  Take a piece
>> of
>>>> rattan, suspend it from its ends with a weight hanging from the center
>> and
>>>> measure its flex from straight.  Wrap it in tape and repeat, remove the
>>>> tape then repeat again with leather.  If there is no appreciable
>> difference
>>>> between tape and leather, I don't see the problem.  SCIENCE!
>>>> 
>>>> Karl Thorgeirsson
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 18:28, Jay Rudin <rudin at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yes, and metal has been approved for hilts. That doesn't mean any metal
>>>> can be used in any way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Rawhide and regular leather have different characteristics, and would
>>>> need to be approved separately.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In any event, the rules also state that "Rattan shall not be treated in
>>>> any way that will substantially reduce its flexibility."
>>>>> 
>>>>> If somebody has tested rattan shrink-wrapped in rawhide for
>> flexibility,
>>>> all we need is the results of that test. Or if some Earl Marshal has
>>>> approved them, all we need is evidence of it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Gene Hosey <genehosey at icloud.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Feb 24, 2016 6:18 PM
>>>>>> To: Jay Rudin <rudin at ev1.net>, Discussion list for all Ansteorran
>>>> marshals <ansteorra-marshals at lists.ansteorra.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-marshals] Rawhide swords
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> IT IS LEATHER, LEATHER WAS APPROVED IN SWORDS BY SOCIETY BEFORE I
>>>> STARTED TWENTY YEARS AGO
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 24, 2016, at 6:15 PM, Jay Rudin <rudin at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are only two possible answers to this question:
>>>>>>> "Yes, they were approved for use in Ansteorra by former Earl Marshal
>>>> X, or for general SCA use by Society Earl Marshal Y. Please contact him
>> for
>>>> more details."
>>>>>>> "No, they have not been approved for use in Ansteorra."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> If no specific named Earl Marshal or Society Earl Marshal has
>> approved
>>>> them, , then they haven't been approved. Who else could have done it?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> As to flexibility: I haven't tested two swords made from similar
>>>> rattan, one covered with rawhide and one not covered. Therefore, of
>> course,
>>>> I have no answer. Similarly, anybody else's answer must be either:
>>>>>>> "I don't know; I haven't tested them."
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> "Here are the methods of my test, and here are the results."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Earl Marshal <kingdom at marshal.ansteorra.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Feb 24, 2016 4:19 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Discussion list for all Ansteorran marshals <
>>>> ansteorra-marshals at lists.ansteorra.org>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ansteorra-marshals] Rawhide swords
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> from the Earl Marshals' perspective, there are two rules I think
>> bear
>>>>>>>> discussion (entire section included below):
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 1. With the exception of the hilts, guards and pommels, no metal or
>>>>>>>> ****non-approved rigid, granular****, or liquid material may be used
>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> construction of single or two-handed weapons including spears.
>>>>>>>> 11. Rattan shall not be treated in any way that will substantially
>>>> reduce
>>>>>>>> its flexibility (e.g., treated with wax, resin, fiberglass, etc.).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So therein lies my real queries.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Does wetting down rawhide, wrapping it around a sword, and then
>>>> allowing it
>>>>>>>> to shrink and harden "substantially reduce it's flexibility"?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Is rawhide a non-approved rigid material?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Thoughts,
>>>>>>>> Jean Paul
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Ansteorra-marshals mailing list
>>>>>>> Ansteorra-marshals at lists.ansteorra.org
>> http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/ansteorra-marshals-ansteorra.org
>>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Andrew R. Mizener / Don Andreas von Meißen
>>> Rowel Pursuivant, Kingdom of Ansteorra
>>> « Qui quærit, invenit »
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