[Ansteorra-rapier] Proposed revision to rapier rules

Jhan Knebel rixende at gmail.com
Wed Oct 10 12:54:40 PDT 2012

If you eliminate the epee for all but the youth program, we may negatively
the youth program. Under these proposed rules, the only people that can
fight a youth with epee are the youth and the marshals. As a former youth
marshal (waiting on my background check to clear again) I personally do NOT
want to be the fighter when I am working with youth. I want to be watching
them work with someone else. I can be a much more effective marshal and
teacher when I am not the one fighting. My son gets much more out of not
fighting his Mom.

Our current program allows any adult to practice with a youth as long as a
youth marshal is present and decides the person is safe to fight the youth.
This law change will remove from play the blade most children start with.
And, while our youth program is tiny, it has a RIDICULOUSLY high success
rate of "graduates." A good portion of that is because they have an
opportunity to fight with adult fighters.

Daniel is 14 and has since graduated to my husband's ridiculously light
Schlager when he fights heavy rapier, but he really can't fight anything
much heavier.  (And mind you, he does not have weak wrists. He's in his
third year of gymnastics and is much stronger than his size implies)


On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Candice Blaschke
<solarandraste at yahoo.com>wrote:

>  I am just wondering what this would do to "light rapier" youth fighters
> who would like to work with, or to do pickups with adult fighters at events
> and practices.
> Candice / Caitilin
>   *From:* Pug Bainter <pug at pug.net>
> *To:* ansteorra-rapier at lists.ansteorra.org
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:04 AM
> *Subject:* [Ansteorra-rapier] Proposed revision to rapier rules
>   Good Morning,
>   As some folks know, we are working on reducing the Kingdom Rapier rules
> down to match the other marshal areas by simply being statements of where
> we differ from Society. This greatly reduces the complexity while improving
> the clarify of our rules. It also allows for less churn when Society makes
> changes.
>   When discussing this recently with the Don Iago (KRM), Sir John (KEM),
> Duke Ulsted (KSen) and Their August Majesties, I made a proposal which
> generated a concern there may be some pushback based on earlier
> discussions. Because of this concern, I asked permission to socialize this
> item with the community to see if the concerns are still warranted.
>   First, and foremost, we are a historical recreation group. This means we
> need to be able to remember our history from time to time. Because of that,
> the wording on this was very specific.
>   It has come to pass that the evolution of our fencing blades has been
> successful and the fading out of light rapier blades has succeeded. As part
> of our rules simplification, there is one item I would like to propose
> because it is in reality but not in law.
> *Ansteorra convention:** Except under the Youth Rapier Program, Light
> Rapier is to be eliminated within the borders of Ansteorra effective March
> 17th, 2013. After that date, Light Rapier blades can only be used with
> variances obtained in writing from the Kingdom Rapier Marshal at least 30
> days in advance such as for historical SCA theme events. Ansteorra’s Rapier
> authorizations permit use of Light Rapier blades at out of Kingdom events
> where allowed.*
>   In order to make sure we don’t cause any knee jerk reactions, the date
> suggested here is to ensure that it will be published in the BlackStar and
> socialized at Gulf Wars with our rapier community before going into effect.
>   When first thinking through the elimination of light rapier blades
> (foils & epees), it concerned me a great bit because of Bryn Gwlad just
> recently having an anniversary event where some of the older equipment was
> not only displayed for viewing, but also used in a tournament. The wording
> was selected to allow for that in case others were interested in these
> types of nostalgic events as well.
>   Going back to us being a historical recreation group, the styles of
> weapon we call a foil and epee today were created in the late 17th to 19thcentury replacing the blades that we are commonly using within our heavy
> rapier program. So while we may be taking a step back from our origins as
> an organization, we are taking a step forward by disallowing historically
> inaccurate weapons.
>   There are some other arguments that could be used to counter this that
> have shown invalid in many other areas of the Society and shouldn’t hold
> this up either. The ones I’ve heard voiced are why eliminate a safe weapon
> and allowing visitors to our kingdom to participate.
>   While the original Markland arrows (padded wood disk w/ wood shaft) were
> developed in Ansteorra for use in combat archery and were perfectly safe,
> Ansteorra allowed them to fade out and then eliminated them because of
> better options being available such as the modern Markland arrows (padded
> UHMW w/ fiberglass shaft). I would be surprised if this was the only
> example throughout our history that has been eliminated for non-safety
> reasons.
>   With regards for the need to be accommodating to visitors who only fight
> light rapier. I may be being naïve, but it is my opinion that this is a red
> herring as the likelihood in this day and age that someone would need this
> is statistically insignificant given that several kingdoms and the major
> wars have already gone to heavy rapier blades only. This means that anyone
> likely to be traveling and attending an SCA function is going to have heavy
> rapier gear already.
>   On a safety note, as our community is aging and given the extremely rare
> use of light rapier blades, I would be concerned with marshals from the
> newer generations being able to properly inspect them for safe versus
> unsafe kinks, curves and pits. I know that I’ve been a combatant and
> marshal for quite a few years and wouldn’t have a clue of what to look for
> since I’ve never seen one on the adult field in my time fighting. This
> could be an argument for elimination under the Youth Rapier program as
> well, but I am (maybe mistakenly) assuming that this *extremely small*community of marshals is being properly trained.
>   Btw, I started this discussion only on this list at this time in case
> there is a huge explosion that I can’t foresee. Depending on the feedback,
> I plan on cross-posting to “The Legion of Swashbucklers” Facebook page as
> well in order to get a breadth of feedback.
> In service,
> Baron Phelim Gervase called Pug, OP, OL, etc
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Baroness Rixende de Rouen, CIM, CSM
Quidam audit valde, facit valde
rixende at gmail.com
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