Let me answer some of Don Tivar's questions and pose a couple more were appropriate:<br><br>For many folks, their initial reaction might be "Hooray! It's about
time!" But think about this a little more. Throughout its history, the
White Scarf has always meant "the best of the best" in rapier, and it
has earned a level of respect similar to the peers in many places. But
it's still a grant-level award, and is only used in twelve of the
nineteen kingdoms of the SCA. If a rapier peerage is set up, then I see
three possibilities.<br>
<br>
1. The White Scarf maintains its current precedence as a grant-level
award, but there's now a peerage-level award that outranks it. We'd no
longer be the best of the best.<br><br> "This is one of the biggest and I think would have the most profound effect in the culture of Rapier". <br>
<br>
"2. The White Scarf becomes the new peerage. But this idea has several
problems built into it. Do all existing White Scarves automatically
become peers? (Does that include the ones that haven't been active for
many years? What about the ones who've died?) If not, who decides what
constitutes "inactive" and which White Scarves get the new peerage and
which don't?"<br>
<br> To answer this series of questions raises several problems: If all existing WS and their counterparts in other Kingdoms are not automatically made peers because of the change, does that drive off some who were not elevated and feel insulted. I do not believe that all member should be automatically elevated, as I do not believe that all would be truly worthy, or at least not at this time. If they were, would they not have been made peers already, like as a Pelican for their service to the rapier community or Laurel for their research?. Do those who no longer play as Tivar states get consideration? If not, we would be back to the position of potentially "insulting" someone unintentionally.<br>
<br>
"What happens to the kingdoms that don't use the White Scarf? Do all the
members of the Order of the Golden Rapier, Bronze Ring, Dragon's Steel,
Meridien Order of the Blade and Queen's Rose automatically become peers
too? If not, why not? In Ealdormere the Order of Thorbjorn's Hammer is
given for all martial activities, not just rapier. Do we say that the
rapier-Hammers get to be peers but not those for armored combat or
archery?"<br> <br>
"There's also this: SCA heraldic rules won't allow a grant-level award
and a peerage to use the same name and insignia, so if the new peerage
is called the White Scarf, then the existing Orders would have to be
shut down, and anybody who doesn't get made a peer would not be allowed
to wear their Scarf any more.<br>
<br>
And, of course, if the White Scarf goes from being the top-level rapier
award to being the top-level rapier award, what have really been gained?
Does having a peerage automatically make you a better fighter, a better
teacher or a more polished courtier than if you just have a grant?<br><br> The fact that all Kingdoms do not participate in the WS Treaty makes this difficult. Those that do, may view this as a loss, while those who do not can view it as a gain.Those 12 Kingdoms that do have the WS seem to gain nothing as only their precedent will change to that of a Peer. The WS Order in many Kingdoms, if not all of them, very similar to Peers already. I have only lived in two Kingdoms, Ansteorra and now The Middle, but as I see here it, and I suspect it is the same across the Known World that the top level fencing award is viewed the same way, with high respect<br>
<br>
3. The Order of the White Scarf is closed and replaced with a new
peerage and a different intermediate award. If that happens, then
inevitably the White Scarf and much of what it means to the SCA would
fade into the mists of time. Is that a desirable outcome?<br><br>I will now add another variable,and that is the Cadet. To my knowledge, the WS and the other equivalent Orders are the only Grant level award that formally take, mark, and title their students. While the title of Cadet, along with its regalia, the Red Scarf, are not protected in anyway, it is very protected by tradition. I know this from personal experience. I have been a student to Aethelyan Moondragon for 8 years now. Upon my accepting her purple scarf, I have been treated with everything from total acceptance to utter disgust. This has been fortunately for the good and unfortunately for the negative, by the action of both some members of the Order of the WS and by some Cadets. I raise this question simply to ask this: <br>
<br>If the new Peerage is to be The White Scarf and titled Don and the Grant level renamed and titled something different, and not all current WS are automatically made Peers, what becomes of their Cadets? I have been both privately and public instructed on numerous occasions that only those who are students to an "official" Don or Dona can be called Cadets and wear the Red Scarf, as well as participate in certain activities,such as serving Her Highness by carrying her Blade as a guard (the tradition in Ansteorra) and are not elevated to the new Peerage, do those Cadets who's Don is not elevated to the Peerage and subsequently "redesignated" with the new title for the Grant level also no longer Cadet and must give up their Red Scarf and stop performing those duties that have been deemed "Cadet Responsibilities" ? Do they, both "former WS and Cadets" if that is the route taken, then abide by the traditions as established and, again unfortunately, made painfully aware to me by those whose hold them sacred?<br>
just an additional thought....<br><br>Rurik the Red<br>Student to Aethelyan Moondragon<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Chris Zakes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dontivar@gmail.com">dontivar@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Fair Greetings,<br>
<br>
A third of a century ago, on a cold, wet Saturday night, history was made. During court at an event called the Tournament of Chivalry, Her Highness Tessa of the Gardens announced that she and Prince Simonn of Amber Isle were creating an award to recognize prominent rapier fighters in the Principality of Ansteorra. That was the beginning of the Order of the White Scarf, and to the best of my knowledge, it was the first official recognition of any sort for rapier fighters in the SCA.<br>
<br>
At that time, there were maybe thirty or forty rapier fighters in Ansteorra, and a few handfuls scattered about the rest of the Known World. Benign neglect was about the best we could hope for from most of the powers-that-be and outright hostility was a pretty common reaction to the presence of rapier fighters.<br>
<br>
We've grown a bit since then, but now the White Scarf is facing a new challenge. The SCA Board of Directors has announced that they are forming a committee "focused on developing a set of options for potential implementation of a new peerage for Rapier Combat and/or Cut and Thrust Combat."<br>
<br>
For many folks, their initial reaction might be "Hooray! It's about time!" But think about this a little more. Throughout its history, the White Scarf has always meant "the best of the best" in rapier, and it has earned a level of respect similar to the peers in many places. But it's still a grant-level award, and is only used in twelve of the nineteen kingdoms of the SCA. If a rapier peerage is set up, then I see three possibilities.<br>
<br>
1. The White Scarf maintains its current precedence as a grant-level award, but there's now a peerage-level award that outranks it. We'd no longer be the best of the best.<br>
<br>
2. The White Scarf becomes the new peerage. But this idea has several problems built into it. Do all existing White Scarves automatically become peers? (Does that include the ones that haven't been active for many years? What about the ones who've died?) If not, who decides what constitutes "inactive" and which White Scarves get the new peerage and which don't?<br>
<br>
What happens to the kingdoms that don't use the White Scarf? Do all the members of the Order of the Golden Rapier, Bronze Ring, Dragon's Steel, Meridien Order of the Blade and Queen's Rose automatically become peers too? If not, why not? In Ealdormere the Order of Thorbjorn's Hammer is given for all martial activities, not just rapier. Do we say that the rapier-Hammers get to be peers but not those for armored combat or archery?<br>
<br>
There's also this: SCA heraldic rules won't allow a grant-level award and a peerage to use the same name and insignia, so if the new peerage is called the White Scarf, then the existing Orders would have to be shut down, and anybody who doesn't get made a peer would not be allowed to wear their Scarf any more.<br>
<br>
And, of course, if the White Scarf goes from being the top-level rapier award to being the top-level rapier award, what have really been gained? Does having a peerage automatically make you a better fighter, a better teacher or a more polished courtier than if you just have a grant?<br>
<br>
3. The Order of the White Scarf is closed and replaced with a new peerage and a different intermediate award. If that happens, then inevitably the White Scarf and much of what it means to the SCA would fade into the mists of time. Is that a desirable outcome?<br>
<br>
<br>
So take a moment to reflect on where you were and what you were doing on March 10 AS XIII, and to raise a glass to the folks who started the Order of the White Scarf.<br>
<br>
But while you're doing that, give some thought to where we are going, too.<br>
<br>
Happy White Scarf Day, everybody!<br>
<br>
-Tivar Moondragon<br>
Ansteorra<br>
<br>
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</blockquote></div><br>