<html><div style='background-color:'><P>Thank you for this Milord. I would support a Bardic College, but agree about the ranking system, If a person is a bard, they are, and that is it. I personally will not intrude upon any gathering unless i am invited and i always try to get others involved by singing well known songs and inviting them to join in. I also use magic as a part of my routine and a lot of humor. I strive to make my audience smile and have a good time instead of impressing them with my "talent"... I have had very few people leave one of my performances and even then they are smiling.</P>
<P>Lord Cormac Starwalker of Skorrgardr<BR><BR></P><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face="Lucida Handwriting, Cursive" color=#ff3333><STRONG>Okiewiter</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
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From: <I>Cisco Cividanes <engtrktwo@earthlink.net></I><BR>Reply-To: <I>Ansteorran Bardic list <bards@lists.ansteorra.org></I><BR>To: <I>Ansteorran Bardic list <bards@lists.ansteorra.org></I><BR>Subject: <I>[Bards] Winterkingdom Bardic Roundtable</I><BR>Date: <I>Sun, 10 Dec 2006 22:24:43 -0600</I><BR>>Here you go, this is my summary of the roundtable discussion that I<BR>>hosted and Moderated. My original notes are available is all their<BR>>unedited and badly typed glory should anyone wish to see them.<BR>>I stand by my summary below. However, if I have misquoted anyone, or if<BR>>anyone feels that "THEY" were misrepresented, please contact me and I<BR>>will correct my mistake post-haste. The attendance was modestly sized<BR>>but diverse, with a non-bard invited to the discussion specifically at<BR>>my request. I have combined my typed notes with
the outline I did,<BR>>please read below for the outcome.<BR>><BR>>Thank you, and good luck with the other roundtable.<BR>><BR>>Lord Ivo Blackhawk<BR>><BR>>The Round table took place as scheduled held at Northkeep’s<BR>>Winterkingdom event, December 9^th 2006, from 2:30 to 4:20. The stated<BR>>goal was to generate conversation and ideas and NOT to solve problems.<BR>>All attendees were asked to joing the bardic list if they were not<BR>>already on it.<BR>><BR>><BR>>The first order of the discussion was a general talk about the negative<BR>>opinions that are held by some in the north about bards and bardic.<BR>><BR>>“There are a number of people in the north who consider bard a dirty<BR>>word. In general, these stem from a very negative encounter with one or<BR>>more bards in the past. There IS, however, a very string push
towards<BR>>‘sing along’s, such as rounds like those taught by HE Rhiannon Redwulf.<BR>>Even people who openly voice displeasure at having to see bards perform<BR>>openly admit to enjoying a ‘sing along’. A lot of people who enjoy<BR>>singing have either chosen to believe, or been taught by older members<BR>>that group singing is not a bardic activity. In some extreme cases,<BR>>there is an active effort to deliberately _not_ include bards in a sing<BR>>along.”<BR>><BR>>The general reactions to the above statements were pity that bardic was<BR>>seen in such light and inquiry as to how this came to be.<BR>><BR>>In the discussion that followed it was agreed all around sing along were<BR>>part of a bards domain and that bards should strive to learn and teach<BR>>songs to the masses if they felt so called. It was noted that sing<BR>>alongs are one
of the best ways of including non-bards in the bardic<BR>>experience and an excellent way to bring people together.<BR>><BR>>“A large number of the complaints fielded against bards can be summed up<BR>>as poor etiquette or manors on the part of the performer. Some people do<BR>>NOT like being performed at. Some bards choose inopportune times to try<BR>>and do a solo performance. Many people have voiced displeasure at the<BR>>tendency of some bards to transform a lively group sing into a solo<BR>>performance.-“Attend the bard!” is usually _not_ well received.”<BR>><BR>>The group whole heartedly and universally express despair that the above<BR>>types of situations should ever have taken place. Count Fin said<BR>>expressly that a Bard should be able to hold an audiences attention by<BR>>power of the performance and a call for silence should NEVER
be<BR>>necessary. This was followed soon after by another point from Fin where<BR>>he expressly said that the practice of calling “attend the bard” (ie,<BR>>‘everyone shut up’) should be stamped out completely. Master Cadfin<BR>>added that Bardic performances in some venues (feasts, for example) can<BR>>become too much of a good thing, and that discretion should be used when<BR>>someone wants to perform in a ‘captive audience’ type venue.<BR>><BR>>Her Excellency Rhiannon Redwulf pointed out that current event sizes and<BR>>locations were not as friendly to bards as were in the early days.<BR>>Larger halls, larger attendance numbers and overall large scale event s<BR>>make performances for feast halls and courts much more difficult.<BR>>Mistress Catrin asked why people don’t just perform for a few tables at<BR>>a time anymore. Lady Aline Swinbrook,
also pointed out that people who<BR>>whant to perform in a feast hall should coordinate with the servers if<BR>>only to make sure the servers to stop serving feast unnecessarily.<BR>><BR>>“It has been stated by veteran members of the society and the Bardic<BR>>community that bardic as of late is not as strong at a kingdom or<BR>>regional level as it was in years past.<BR>><BR>>The evidence presented: Extremely low turnouts at major bardic<BR>>competitions such as Kingdom bardic. Decreased bardic presence at<BR>>events, such as “fire walks”, “bardic circles” and performances during<BR>>feast.”<BR>><BR>>Her Excelency Rhiannon and Master Cadfin pointed out that camping at<BR>>events has declined and that the many of the older events have become so<BR>>over scheduled that between the primary activity and the drive home,<BR>>there isn’t time for
bardic for many people. Lady Aline Swinbrook also<BR>>pointed out that the north is really regionalized due to the demographic<BR>>of college students, the effects of gas prices and the economy of just<BR>>day tripping. A lot fewer people even really travel to distant events<BR>>any more (at least from the north).<BR>><BR>>“As some do believe that bardic is on the decline, it has been suggested<BR>>that a more formalized structure be made available to facilitate<BR>>communication, training, and education within the bardic community. One<BR>>such suggestion was a bardic college that operated independent of the<BR>>royal officers. This college would help to make performance material<BR>>available to bards, and act as a central administrative conduit for the<BR>>organization of bardic activity across the kingdom. The College could be<BR>>(as proposed
by some) created totally separate from the existing royal<BR>>structure and therefore answer only to bards.”<BR>><BR>><BR>>The first question asked to the group was: “Do we think that a<BR>>‘top-down’ system would help Bardic in the north and kingdom wide?”<BR>><BR>>Mistris Catrin said that the idea was not favorable to her way of<BR>>thinking. Master Cadfin said that he was in support of the idea of a<BR>>top-down structure, but totally opposed to any separation from the<BR>>crown. Lord Ivo Blackhawk agreed with this statement. Mistris Catrin<BR>>pointed out that the previous College included an internal ranking<BR>>system similar to a jorneymen, aprentencie… step system seen in modern<BR>>unions. This ranking system was evidently the source of some major<BR>>issues in the past and a modern college, if created, should stay away<BR>>from any
internal, independent ranking system. Cadfin Pointed out that<BR>>ranks were irrelevant to current needs, this statement was agreed with<BR>>my most people in attendance.<BR>><BR>>When asked what the attendees would like to see a college do, the<BR>>following items were mentioned. More arcane material. Teaching. Better<BR>>networking and communication. Teaching of etiquette, and a teaching of<BR>>critiquing techniques to help bards get better. Teaching. More<BR>>nationalities of baric material, teaching, teaching, more subjects made<BR>>available, teaching.It was at this point in the discussion that Cadfin<BR>>put out that while he would like to see a college exist as part of the<BR>>royal structure, it should be insulated for the whims of any one person.<BR>>That is to say if there were a college, it should be run by a deputy to<BR>>the kingdom
Minister of A&S, for example. The point to his comment was<BR>>to NOT have the college answered directly to any one person.<BR>><BR>>“What would you like the college to stay away from?”<BR>>Everyone: RANK!!!!!...no further comments.<BR>><BR>>Would you join and support a college?<BR>>All in attendance said no.<BR>><BR>>Would you wish them well and not join?<BR>>All in attendance said yes to this.<BR>><BR>>Would you ignore them [if you didn’t join]?<BR>>All in attendance said yes to this as well.<BR>><BR>>Would you actively dislike them?<BR>>Master Cadfan: And this is a direct quote “This is a Stupid question.”<BR>>The whole audience agreed and said that they didn’t know what to like or<BR>>dislike about a college at this point.<BR>><BR>>Would you try to prevent them from forming?<BR>>None present expressed any interest in
fighting the formation of a<BR>>college in any way.<BR>><BR>>“It has also been pointed out that all of the objectives stated for the<BR>>bardic college can be achieved without an actual college, and without<BR>>the centralized administrative structure. Through computerized<BR>>libraries, more bardic practices and more interaction at a community<BR>>level, many of the goals set forth for the college can be achieved<BR>>without a system. Do we think that a ‘Ground-up’ system would help<BR>>Bardic in the north and kingdom wide?”<BR>><BR>>Mistriss Catrin stated that we need a club, not a formal unit of some<BR>>sort. Lord Ivo Blackhawk said that the problem should be fixed from the<BR>>grass roots level first, and not the royal level. Cadfin commented that<BR>>we need some organization and it should answer to MOAS. Another deputity<BR>>MOAS
officer would serve admin needs. This was NOT, however, a statement<BR>>of a need for a formal college.<BR>><BR>>This ended the discussion about the College of bards as a topic.<BR>><BR>>The final topic of the day was a possible course of action to help bards<BR>>deal with some of the hostility they have encountered as of late, and<BR>>possible how to hold bards to a standard of behaviors specific to the<BR>>performing arts. The group was asked if we wanted to look into codifying<BR>>some form of ‘bardic etiquette’. This would not necessarily be any form<BR>>of enforceable laws, but a written set of expectations that lets both<BR>>bards and non bards know what to expect (and not expect) of each other.<BR>><BR>>Mistress Catrin emphasized that common since had to be applied-these<BR>>would not be absolutes. She then added that performances were
getting<BR>>out of hand with hostage audience situation. Cadfin said that bards<BR>>shouldn’t perform at feast with the bidding of the crown or royal reps.<BR>><BR>>While we did NOT talk about the specific text of such a code of<BR>>etiquette, Master Cadfin did make a statement that the moderator felt<BR>>appropriate to note here”<BR>><BR>>“The first line on the rules of etiquette should say ‘under no<BR>>circumstances is anyone _required_ to listen to a bardic performance.’”<BR>>[Moderator’s note: I have had my life threatened with less vigor than<BR>>was put into this statement.]<BR>><BR>>_______________________________________________<BR>>Bards mailing list<BR>>Bards@lists.ansteorra.org<BR>>http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/bards-ansteorra.org<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></div></html>