<div>Okay, I agree with that, too. The etiquette works for all genres. Yes, the references -- I'd like to see the outline and structure you put together, with the specific references for music (because that is what you know and you do so well) used by other genre expert people.</div> <div> </div> <div>Honestly, all I'm saying is, I really like this, and I think it's an excellent place to start. I'm sorry I'm not being specific enough, or perhaps polite or politic enough. I thought the etiquette being universal could go without saying, since it ISN'T genre specific.</div> <div> </div> <div>Esther<BR><BR><B><I>Gerald Norris <jerryn@houston.rr.com></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=GENERATOR> <DIV><SPAN class=201325011-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I disagree. I did my dead-level best to try to avoid
making the etiquette outline apply only to singing/music. I think that the etiquette outline should hold true across the board. Now, my references are for singing/music, because I know of them, so that might be what you're asking for. Of course, this counts as a request for comment, so ... ladies, gentlemen, comments?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=201325011-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=201325011-14052007> <div><FONT size=2>In service to the dream with a song in my heart, I am,<BR>HL Gerald of Leesville<BR>A bard of Stargate </FONT></div></SPAN></DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bards-bounces@lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:bards-bounces@lists.ansteorra.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Esther<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 14, 2007 12:39 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Ansteorran Bardic list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[Bards] Beginning Bard Bruhaha (was RE: A small Bardic survey....) [not as long as some of my other posts, but ....]<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>Okay, instead of "list", see "outline". I really LIKE how you structured this outline of learning and teaching, but it IS an outline about music and singing, I'd like to see the Outline you sketched, sketched in in other disciplines.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Esther<BR><BR><B><I>Gerald Norris <jerryn@houston.rr.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.6000.16414" name=GENERATOR> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Esther, I think I'm confused. What list? As for beginning/baby bards ....</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN
class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I think one can get so caught up in the idea that classes can teach many things that we try to use the tool to teach a thing that is, at it's essence, undefinable. Can Finnecan teach story-telling? He might be able to offer what works for him, but it doesn't mean that it works for everyone. He can't teach you how to read an audience, though he can tell you SOME things to look for.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I think there are two types of "beginning" bards; those who have already learned how to use their talents and are looking for ways to express them in the SCA, and those who want to find out what talents they may have, so that they may some day be able to tell a story that brings Finnacan to tears, sing a song that
sends Gerald to his feet cheering and clapping, or recite a poem that leaves Robin open-mouthed in wonder. </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>For the first, it's simple etiquette and resources that will do them the most good. For the latter, etiquette and resources are good starting points along with the admonition to try things out. Seek those who seem to do well in these things and ask to perform for them. Ask their advice and listen to them with an objective ear. Can't stand criticism? Don't ask. But it's a harder road to doing well if all that is sought is praise.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>There's so
much more to this than what can be said on a page, taught in an hour, or several. If you're a "beginning" bard on the list (and folks, there are days, many of them in which I throw my hat in the beginners circle with no shame), then your best first step is to use such tools as this very list to ask a question about something in bardic that interests you, with the caveat that using mailing lists for advice/learning has it's drawbacks. Get in contact with people that do the things that inspire you and ask them for information; even guidance.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Above all realize that every bard on this list worthy of the label desires to help others join this merry fellowship almost as much as they desire to perform. I will use Robin as an example. Robin is a member of the
following orders; white scarf, pelican, and laurel, along with other honors. It tends to make him busy at just about any event that he goes to. But he wants to teach, and he wants to encourage new talent of whatever form. Even though he's busy, if you use this list to contact him, and emails to communicate with him, the likelihood is that he will try to find time to talk with you, perhaps encourage you to perform, and even comment should you desire. The same is true with many on this list whom others consider to be "good" bards.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>A thirty minute class, even an hour class, is basically good for very basic techniques and a relaying of resources. The learning is done by watching, observing, getting past the point of just being entertained when
Mea stands and sings, Alden gives a poem that causes the ladies to get teary-eyed, or Rhiannon plays a piece that lifts the heart, and looking at the moments as they happen to find the things that speak to you, and taking them home and practicing them; in front of a mirror, out loud, sitting, standing, whatever. That's how the good bards learn.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Or so I've been told.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2> <DIV><FONT size=2>In service to the dream with a song in my heart, I am,<BR>HL Gerald of Leesville<BR>A bard of Stargate </FONT></DIV></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=192485902-14052007><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV><BR> <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left> <HR tabIndex=-1> <FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> bards-bounces@lists.ansteorra.org [mailto:bards-bounces@lists.ansteorra.org] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Esther<BR><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, May 13, 2007 8:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Ansteorran Bardic list<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bards] A small Bardic survey....<BR></FONT><BR></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV>I think this is an excellent list!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would love to see one, perhaps from our Kingdom bard, on basic, beginning storytelling.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I'd love to see one on the poetry side of things, as well, perhaps from Master Robin?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I would love to see Baroness Rhiannon's and Maggie's take, too. I'd especially like to see Maggie take this structure that Gerald has laid out, and give her perspective on non-European cultures, too.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am a baby bard, someone who would be taking these classes. That's why I'm not chiming in -- I simply don't know enough!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Esther<BR><BR><B><I>Gerald Norris <jerryn@houston.rr.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Basic Bardic Class<BR><BR>I think too often we flood basic bardic classes with attempts at talking<BR>technique and style, when we should be talking etiquette and resources.<BR>Where do you learn the tunes for these songs? Where do you find the tunes<BR>for Irish traditional music? English country dances? Early History Music?<BR><BR>Start with this. <BR><BR>1) Bardic Etiquette <BR>- be aware of your surroundings and your audience. To spell this<BR>out, a) if another performer is doing something nearby and your performance<BR>might distract from that, then hold off and wait for them to finish, b) if<BR>there are
children in the audience, try to hold the language to at least a<BR>PG rating<BR>- You do not have the right to perform for anyone whether they want<BR>you to or not - you have the right to ask if you can perform and to abide by<BR>the decision once it's given.<BR>- Practice, practice, practice.<BR>- Offer critique to another bard only if they ask for it - don't<BR>volunteer (you can ask if they would like a critique of the performance, but<BR>"No." means "No." no matter how much you think your advice might improve the<BR>performance<BR>- If you ask for critique, take it with a smile, and don't take it<BR>personally. Period. If it sounds like snotty advice, thank whoever you<BR>asked, and move along, pilgrim.<BR>- If you hate hearing a particular song/story/poem, shut up, go get<BR>a drink, and come back after the song's been sung. Whining will get you<BR>nowhere.<BR>- Use common sense. This list can't tell you everything you need to<BR>know about bardic etiquette. New to
bardic? Go to a circle and observe<BR>(that's right, WATCH). See how the others are acting and don't go to the<BR>lowest common denominator. The same holds true if you're new to an area,<BR>even if you're an old hat to bardic in Ansteorra, the Calontirii may do<BR>things differently. Do your best to be polite, don't be rude, and if<BR>someone else is rude and jumps in front of you, the injustice will not be<BR>righted by your returned rude response. Rise above the occasion, and when<BR>it finally comes your turn, perform your piece and enjoy the moment, and<BR>share that joy with others. That's the reason we're all doing this in the<BR>first place, right?<BR>- Beware modern rip-offs - they are rarely as funny as people who<BR>perform them think they are. <BR>- If you're performing and other people are talking, don't huff -<BR>many of these people are old friends gathered from distant lands. If you<BR>can't hold the attention of the audience it's not their fault. <BR><BR>2)
Bardic Resources<BR>- Ansteorran bardic web page<BR>- Ansteorran bardic mailing list<BR>- Cantaria<BR>- Digital Traditions<BR><BR>In service to the dream with a song in my heart, I am,<BR>HL Gerald of Leesville<BR>A bard of Stargate <BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: bards-bounces@lists.ansteorra.org<BR>[mailto:bards-bounces@lists.ansteorra.org] On Behalf Of Genie Barrett<BR>Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 8:16 AM<BR>To: Ansteorran Bardic list<BR>Subject: [Bards] A small Bardic survey....<BR><BR>Hi everyone,<BR><BR>I have agreed to teach a basic bardic class at Steppes Artisan.<BR><BR>Do you have any suggestions/requests regarding what to include in the class?<BR><BR>I would rather make it more inclusive than just "bardic" which can have such<BR>a narrow meaning, and include basic bardic etiquette and all.<BR><BR>Should I include how to find bardic music info?<BR><BR>Any other suggestions would be very much appreciated.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Maggie
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