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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>First of all, thank you. I started with the
books, and yes, Serena and I have a lot of them. But most of the specific
examples came from three simple Google searches -- "Vivat Rex" (12,900
hits), "Vivat Regina" (12,700 hits) and "vivat vivat vivat" (488 hits).
There's no "trick" except to actually look something up before posting. I
knew very little of the specific examples when I started writing last night (and
had to rewrite based on the research about three times). Anybody posting
here could have done it, at the cost of two hours' research time -- at least,
that's what it cost me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Of course, having the books helps a lot, too.
Once I found the Old Testament reference online, I went back to my Vulgate to
double check, as well as my Douay-Rheims translation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Secondly, both pronunciations are correct and
period, as are many others. Latin is not a single language, stuck
unchanging in time. As long as a language is used, it can change.
"Wiwat" is church Latin (and Italianate Latin), and harkens back to the
fact that "V" and "U" were originally the same letter. "Vivat" is Medieval
Latin, Oxford Latin, and other versions I don't know about. There are
differences in the vowel pronunciation as well, but I'm not that knowledgeable
about them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There are differences besides pronunciation.
Our scrolls, which are medieval Latin, begin "Sciatis quod nos ... creamus"
("Know that we create"). Classical Latin would use the accusative
infinitive construction instead. "Sciatis nos creare" ("Know us to
create"). I found out about this when I was proofreading a scroll for
Serena, and tried to "correct" the grammar to the classical version, which was
never used on medieval documents.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As a voice herald, if I were to try to correct any
specific court usage in Ansteorra, it would be to get rid of the
occasionally-heard two-language form "Vivat King! Vivat
Queen!" Nobody in period, or even in England today, would ever say
that. It's just an illiterate mistake, which says, in effect, "This isn't
real. We're re-enacting something we do not understand". (And, no, I don't
always follow the heralds's lead. When a herald says "Vivat King," I echo,
"Vivat Rex!")</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robin of Gilwell / Jay Rudin</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=annescvb@gmail.com href="mailto:annescvb@gmail.com">Darlene
Vandever</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=bards@lists.ansteorra.org
href="mailto:bards@lists.ansteorra.org">Ansteorran Bardic list</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 12, 2007 9:32
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Bards] Ansteorran History
and trival</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Dear Master Robin,</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>How do you do this!??! My goodness, my mind's vision has you
sitting in the middle of a vast library with the books leaping off the shelf
at you. If you have a particular trick in searching the internet, please share
it. Wow. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>On the subject of "Vivat" or "Vivet" or however you spell it, I
remember a time when HE, Master Bran de Tintreak, then Baron of The Stargate,
tried to get us to pronouce the word with a "W" sound not a "V" sound. It only
worked for a bit of time and I know that he was correct to do this but we
follow the heralds lead whenever we give an accolade in court. </STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>How do you voice heralds feel about doing or needing to do the
correct pronounciation of our favorite accolade?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Annes</STRONG></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>