[BG-heralds] Tommaso di Attaviano di Leonardo Dragonetti

[Tim McDaniel]

It's best to have specifics on a consultation in the subject line,
just to make it easier to find in archives.

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Tommaso wrote:
> I'm using the lists of Italian names from
> http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/italian.shtml, primarily
> http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/tratte/
> (Aryanhwy merch Catmael does wonderful things)
>
> Planning on the gdgdgf format that was fairly popular in the
> mid-late 1500s...
>
> So, how's this for a random string of annoying names for Heralds to
> call on the field? :D Tommaso di Attaviano di Leonardo Dragonetti
>
> the
> three given names are all commonly in use in the Tre Maggiori..
>
> Dragonetti as a surname has but three records, but I like it... :)

Pegasus / brandtfamily at sprintmail.com wrote:
> To: "Wendy Erisman" <wenthlyan at yahoo.com>
but not, apparently the list,
> When you use an acronym it might help the first time you use it to
> write it like this
> g-- d-- g-- d-- g-- f-- "gdgdgf"
> I for one am at a loss for its meaning.

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010, Wendy Erisman wrote:
> I didn't use the acronym; the client did. That's part of why I'm
> having trouble responding to his request.
>
> I am only guessing, but based on his desired name think he means
> "given name" di "given name" di "given name" "family name".

I did a Google search for
     gdgdgf italian
9 results; only the first hit is accessable and doesn't look more
or less like random text.  It's Aryanhwy's article "Names from Arezzo,
Italy, 1386-1528".  I quote the explanation below.  Gwenllian is right:
gdgdgf is defined there as meaning given di given di given family.
I think I've seen that kind of notation in at least one other SCA name
article.

gdgdgf is the single most common pattern in this source.
It may be a purely documentary form -- I doubt that people went around
saying "Good morning, Bartolomeo di Giovanni di Piero di Bartolomeo
Scodellari!  Have you seen Girolamo di Michelozzo di Bartolomeo
Michelozzi this morning?  Lorenzo di Bernardo di messer Lorenzo
Ridolfi was asking about him."  But I believe there's a precedent
dating back to at least Talan Pelican that says we register a wide
variety of names, including purely documentary forms.

The article he noted,
http://www.ellipsis.cx/~liana/names/italian/tratte/, is
"Italian Given Names from the Online Tratte of Office Holders
1282-1532"
by Aryanhwy merch Catmael (Sara L. Uckelman)
(c) 2010, last updated 18Jul10
     Tommaso    1768 occurences
     Attaviano   123
     Leonardo   1150
Names in this page are sometimes grouped under a header; the header is
the normal or full form, and the forms grouped under it are the
literal spellings of variants.  Those counts above are for the literal
spellings.

Dragonetti is not in the surname list, but Ary has just started work
on it.  I Googled
     Dragonetti site:s-gabriel.org
and got one hit,
http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/ferrante/catasto/family_names.html
"Family Names Appearing in the Catasto of 1427"
DRAGONETTI 1
But one use is all you need for just a regular name element.
He wrote that he found 3 uses, but those articles probably don't live
on s-gabriel.org and he didn't give his source.  I'd like to know it.

Anyway, looks OK to me.

-- Danet de Lyncoln, Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Names from Arezzo, Italy, 1386-1528"
by Sara L. Friedemann (Aryanhwy merch Catmael)
(c) 2003 Sara L. Friedemann; all rights reserved
last updated 09Jun03

Introduction

The following are names of 271 chief financial officials (camarlinghi
generali in Italian) of Arezzo in Italy between 1386 and 1528.  ...

Naming patterns

More than half of the given names are found only once. All men listed
here had only one given name, but beyond that, name construction was
somewhat complex; this may be a result of the fairly high standing
that these men had in society.

Virtually all of the men were identified immediately with a literal
patronymic, of the form "di <father's name>". Their fathers were then
identified either with a literal patronmic of their own or a family
name. The following show the percentages of people with the different
types of constructions.

The code for the following list is:
g = given name
d = "di"
f = family name
x = descriptive (see below)

So the string 'gdgdgf' would indicate men who were identified by a
single given name, their father's name, their grandfather's name, and
their granfather's family name, e.g. Niccol{`o} di Michele di Vanni
Castellani, 'Niccol{`o}, son of Michele, son of Vanni of the
Castellani family'.

Pattern   Number Pct    Example
gdgdgf    145    53.5%  Niccol{`o} di Michele di Vanni Castellani
gdgf      78     28.7%  Filippo di Franco Sacchetti
gdgdgdgf  10      3.7%  Bartolomeo di Giovanni di Piero di Bartolomeo Scodellari
...