[Bryn-gwlad] spices and spoiled meat (was: Trenchers--A BriefHistory)

[Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace]

Salut cozyns,

Well, I didn't really intend to get into the side argument of spices and 
rot, but I'm happy to consider them. Yes, I agree that most people who use 
spice do so because they like the taste. Coblaith's point that spices 
shipped a long way lose flavor also is a good point.

I can also, however, note that cassia, cinnamon, and nutmeg all have 
preservative properties. I can say the same for vinegar and alcohol.

As for the argument, "I tried spices on rotten meat and it still smelled 
nasty," uh, so? High meats are still in use in many parts of the world. If 
you're accustomed to that sort of thing, it's an expected part of the 
flavor. I don't think most people add spice or vinegar to high meats to hide 
the smell or flavor. All of the high meat dishes I've experienced, however, 
have been heavily sauced and spiced.

One exception in the matter of hidin smells is fish. When fish goes off, 
several components of fish protein break down to form trimethylamine and 
ammonia. I can't imagine anyone every finding these odors desirable. 
Fortunately, citrus and several aromatic spices *will* cover it. 
Unfortunately, after you've eaten the fish and washed the dish, you'll find 
that the trimethylamine (the skunky smelling amine that most people 
associate with fishiness) is the hardest to remove.


Lyonel
_________________________________
Micel yfel deth se unwritere.
		--AElfric of York





>From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
>To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
>Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] spices and spoiled meat (was: Trenchers--A 
>BriefHistory)
>Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2006 04:38:47 -0500
>
>Sir Lyonel Oliver Grace wrote:
> > A perusal of "The Forme of Cury" (which is online at
> > http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/foc/ ) or any other 14th or 15th
> > centurycookbook discovers a preponderance of stewed dishes. This
> > apparent predominance of stewed and sauced dishes prepared with wines
> > and vinegars is frequently noted as a support for the notion that much
> > of the meat was likely somewhat "high".
>
>Danielis Lindonium replied:
> > That's a favorite explanation for medieval spices, but I recall
> > reading a debunking on rec.org.sca some years ago.. . .
>
> > I've heard two other explanations for medieval spice use:
> > - we don't understand the quantities of spices used, and they were
> > actually small quantities
> > - they simply liked heavy spicing
>
>I'm familiar with a third, relevant at least to flavorings from the Far
>East and other exotic locales:  Spices begin to lose their flavor the
>minute they're picked.  It takes a LONG TIME to get pepper from India
>to Spain without a motor of some sort, and considerably less to get it
>from India to Austin on a plane.  So a tablespoon of 21st-century
>pepper, fresh from a reliable supplier, is far more potent than a
>tablespoon of 15th-century pepper.  (Of course, I can't find the
>article in which I read that, now.)
>
>There's a discussion of the "heavy spicing = past-their-prime
>ingredients" idea in the Florilegium
><http://www.florilegium.org/files/FOOD/rotten-meat-msg.html>, with
>cites for various opinions.  I thought Cariadoc's Miscellany
><http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Medieval/miscellany_pdf/Miscellany.htm>
>contained an article about it, but when double-checking found only a
>paragraph in "Cooking from Primary Sources: Some General Comments".
>
>Having tasted Thai food, Jamaican food, and the citric-acid enhanced
>sour candy that's in fashion with kids right now, my
>highly-unscientific opinion is:  Some people LIKE food that's very
>intensely flavored, even to the point of overwhelming the typical
>modern-day English or American palate.  Some of them pass on that
>attitude, generation to generation, as a cultural predeliction.  It's
>just silly (or at least a failure to apply Ockham's Razor) to assume
>medieval Europeans must have had an ulterior motive for giving their
>food different or more intense flavors than those considered "normal"
>in our own culture groups, when they could just as easily have simply
>preferred it that way.  (Well, O.K., it's a LITTLE scientific. . .)
>
>
>Coblaith Mhuimhneach
><mailto:Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
>
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