[Bryn-gwlad] milord
R Carchia
kagemusha_rck at hotmail.com
Sat Apr 21 10:40:32 PDT 2007
I always used milord, milady but that is me....however I rarely use either
now, I just bow alot easier and can get away with it more I think being a
Japanese persona ; )
Lady Tomoko
Then Ilariia asked:
>But isn't my lord/lady the way you refer to someone who is titled but you
>don't know in what way and milord/lady the way to address anyone whom you
>don't know?
"M'lord" is an contraction of "my lord", as is "m'lady" of "my lady".
(The relationship is the same as that between "can't" and "can not".)
In the S.C.A., "m'lord" and "m'lady" are used as generic terms of
respect (because, so far as I can tell, everything and anything else
that anyone's been able to come up with that might be is already in use
as the specialized form of address for holders of some honor or other).
So, if you want to speak directly to someone with courtly grace and
don't know their title, you can use "m'lord" as you would use that
title if you knew it. For example:
New Friend: Greetings! How are you this fine day?
Ilariia: Greetings, m'lord. I am quite well. And yourself?
as opposed to:
Baron Muckety von Muck: Greetings! How are you this fine day?
Ilariia: Greetings, Your Grace. I am quite well. And yourself?
It has much in common, as Daniel said, with "sir" and "ma'am" as they
are used in the Old South. Where I grew up, conversations like this
are common:
Older Adult: Well, hey, there! How are you this fine mornin'?
Younger Adult: Well, sir, I'm doin' alright. How about you?
What Daniel was trying to explain is that "m'lord", while it can be
used en lieu of a title, is not itself a title, and doesn't combine
with names the way titles do. You might say, "Good morning, m'lord,"
to Lord Tobias, but you would not say, "Good morning, m'lord Tobias,"
just as you might say, "Good morning, ma'am," to an older woman named
"Sofie", but wouldn't say, "Good morning, ma'am Sofie."
Of course, where I grew up we had "mister" and "miss" to draw on, so we
could say, "Good morning, Miss Sofie." Unfortunately, the Society
hasn't come up with a good term of address that isn't rank-specific, so
you're left with the choice of using the gentle's name without one
(which could be considered presumptuous, if you don't know them),
taking a guess (which could be wrong), not using the gentle's name at
all, or being ungrammatical by using "m'lord" or "m'lady" with the
gentle's name. Different people make different choices in that regard.
It bothered me when we first entered the S.C.A. I'm a modern sort of
girl, generally, but the Society's take on respectful discourse is
close enough to what I grew up with to put me in an old-fashioned frame
of mind. I find myself as reluctant to call those with higher ranks by
their names alone (unless they've indicated that's their preference) as
I am to call those my grandmother's age by theirs when I'm visiting her
part of the country. Of course, bad grammar rubs me the wrong way,
too, so when I don't know people's ranks I usually try to avoid using
their names altogether. As Daniel indicated, "Welcome, my lord," works
just fine without one.
Coblaith Mhuimhneach
<mailto:Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
"Well behaved women rarely make history." ~ Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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----Original Message Follows----
From: bryn-gwlad-request at lists.ansteorra.org
Reply-To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org
To: bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org
Subject: Bryn-gwlad Digest, Vol 12, Issue 36
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:59:17 -0700
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Today's Topics:
1. uses of "m'lord"/"m'lady" (was: Greetings Unto All)
(Coblaith Mhuimhneach)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:46:04 -0500
From: Coblaith Mhuimhneach <Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [Bryn-gwlad] uses of "m'lord"/"m'lady" (was: Greetings Unto
All)
To: Barony of Bryn Gwlad <bryn-gwlad at lists.ansteorra.org>
Message-ID: <4a871cf06c3c972d779a0a94f6259690 at sbcglobal.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Ilariia addressed a visitor to our lands using "m'lord" as a substitute
for his title. Daniel explained that that isn't how the term works,
and suggested something like, "good my lord" instead. Ilariia wrote:
> Thank you for the correction. I have been confused about when to use
> milord/milady and my lord/ my lady.
and Daniel replied:
> So far as I know "milord" = "my lord" = "m'lord" and "milady = my
> lady" = "m'lady".
>
> But "lord" =/= "milord".
Then Ilariia asked:
> But isn't my lord/lady the way you refer to someone who is titled but
> you don't know in what way and milord/lady the way to address anyone
> whom you don't know?
"M'lord" is an contraction of "my lord", as is "m'lady" of "my lady".
(The relationship is the same as that between "can't" and "can not".)
In the S.C.A., "m'lord" and "m'lady" are used as generic terms of
respect (because, so far as I can tell, everything and anything else
that anyone's been able to come up with that might be is already in use
as the specialized form of address for holders of some honor or other).
So, if you want to speak directly to someone with courtly grace and
don't know their title, you can use "m'lord" as you would use that
title if you knew it. For example:
New Friend: Greetings! How are you this fine day?
Ilariia: Greetings, m'lord. I am quite well. And yourself?
as opposed to:
Baron Muckety von Muck: Greetings! How are you this fine day?
Ilariia: Greetings, Your Grace. I am quite well. And yourself?
It has much in common, as Daniel said, with "sir" and "ma'am" as they
are used in the Old South. Where I grew up, conversations like this
are common:
Older Adult: Well, hey, there! How are you this fine mornin'?
Younger Adult: Well, sir, I'm doin' alright. How about you?
What Daniel was trying to explain is that "m'lord", while it can be
used en lieu of a title, is not itself a title, and doesn't combine
with names the way titles do. You might say, "Good morning, m'lord,"
to Lord Tobias, but you would not say, "Good morning, m'lord Tobias,"
just as you might say, "Good morning, ma'am," to an older woman named
"Sofie", but wouldn't say, "Good morning, ma'am Sofie."
Of course, where I grew up we had "mister" and "miss" to draw on, so we
could say, "Good morning, Miss Sofie." Unfortunately, the Society
hasn't come up with a good term of address that isn't rank-specific, so
you're left with the choice of using the gentle's name without one
(which could be considered presumptuous, if you don't know them),
taking a guess (which could be wrong), not using the gentle's name at
all, or being ungrammatical by using "m'lord" or "m'lady" with the
gentle's name. Different people make different choices in that regard.
It bothered me when we first entered the S.C.A. I'm a modern sort of
girl, generally, but the Society's take on respectful discourse is
close enough to what I grew up with to put me in an old-fashioned frame
of mind. I find myself as reluctant to call those with higher ranks by
their names alone (unless they've indicated that's their preference) as
I am to call those my grandmother's age by theirs when I'm visiting her
part of the country. Of course, bad grammar rubs me the wrong way,
too, so when I don't know people's ranks I usually try to avoid using
their names altogether. As Daniel indicated, "Welcome, my lord," works
just fine without one.
Coblaith Mhuimhneach
<mailto:Coblaith at sbcglobal.net>
------------------------------
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