BVC - [MK-BnV] BNV controversy (fwd)

Pug Bainter pug at
Fri Jun 11 07:32:41 PDT 1999

----- Forwarded message from Judith Kirk <Kirk at> -----

X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.5
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 10:09:05 -0400
From: "Judith Kirk" <Kirk at>
To: <sca-laurels at>, <mk-bnv at>,
        <sca-middle at>, <midlaurel at>
Cc: <michael2 at>, <siobhan75 at>, <millsbn at>,
        <judyscot at>
Subject: [MK-BnV] BNV controversy
Reply-To: mk-bnv at

Good morning!

I've talked with one of the SCA's lawyers, who has had an extensive
and ongoing discussion with Duke Andrew of Riga, who is on the BoD,
and this is what I have heard back. I have permission to share this,
and I give anyone permission to share this entire post with any and
all lists, since this is a Society-wide concern. A big one :-)

I have sent it to Middlebridge, Midlaurel, MK-BNV, Hordenet,
SCA-Laurels, and some friends in Northshield and Ealdormere. Please
please pass this information on!

Taffy, might you want to put this on the Midrealm page too? 

Please note that there is still discussion on bnv newsletters and
what they can contain. Note also that there is a POSSIBILITY for big
changes in Kingdom-sponsored parties where alcohol has been served
in the past. This could have major ramifications for camping events
such as Gulf Wars, Lillies, Estrella, and Pennsic. It also is
appearing that we can no longer gift royals with potent potables,
nor can we offer potent potables as prizes in any SCA tournaments. I
am going to ask how this affects BNV competitions within the SCA,
since there is a very active BNV division in the Middle Kingdom's
Arts and Sciences Faires.

As I get more news, I will share it with you. If you wish, you can
email me with questions, and I will collect them and pass them on up
the corporate ladder.

Above all, remain calm and sensible. If you wish to write letters
directly to the BoD, stay on target, don't get overly emotional, and
state your case reasonably and logically. We'll get farther that way
if we can deal directly with the issues and not have to cool tempers
before we can even address the import of the matter to our play.

If you wish to mail me, my address is:  judith.a.kirk at

Yours in service for safe and free consumption of potent potables,

Mistress Siobhan O'Neill
Middle Kingdom


Hi, Siobhan.  I have had a long chat with Duke Andrew, the SCA
Board's Executive Assistant, about the letter from Mistress
Tetchubah.  Here are a few of the points; note that I promised to
get some more specific information to him about a few of the issues,
so the matter is not yet resolved.  However, we both give you
permission to share this with whomever wishes to see it, so that
they know the questions are being researched and answered and
hopefully an acceptable resolution will be achieved.

To start, the SCA's insurance policy is VERY clear: the SCA may
"manufacture, distribute, sell, serve, or furnish" alcoholic
beverages of any kind.  This means, no serving alcohol at feasts,
events, or
SCA-sponsored parties, or even those that appear to be SCA (eg, the
King invites everybody to his camp for a kegger).

As you noted, and as the letter from Mistress Tetchubah states,
purchasing alcohol which will be an incidental ingredient in a
recipe, such as stew with a bit of wine, or even Perys (although
that is probably pushing it), is OK.  Buying a bottle of brandy to
use a thimbleful to soak the sugarcube that will be the flames out
of the mouth of a dragon soteltie, is not.

It is the "manufacture" on the list of forbidden acts that causes
problem for buying supplies.  Yes, grain alone, or sugar, or yeast,
are not alcoholic, and only become so in the proper quantities and
prep aration. Yes, you can use the same ingredients to make bread. 
However, the act of combining them to create alcohol is a
manufacture, and this cannot be done by the SCA or with SCA funds. 

I did point out that publishing recipes would not be considered
manufacturing as far as I am aware, and did promise to do a bit
research on this subject (hopefully, this weekend before I
disappear to Lillies War).  The problem is that the recipes must be
presented along the line that the cooking newsletters offer recipes:
 "Here is what they did in period.  Here is a period recipe.  Here
is what it means, in modern English. Here is how to do it safely in
a modern kitchen."  Publishing something that says, "I came up with
a recipe for chili mead and here is how to do it" is just not
appropriate for an SCA publication.  (And IMHTO, sounds pretty

I don't think there is a First Amendment issue here, but am going
to look into that as well.  I think that the SCA is entitled to
limit the contents of newsletters published as a part of the SCA to
appropriately educational and historical writings.  Modern recipes,
except as a way to achieve a period result, have no place in the
newsletters.  Think of it as someone giving their Killer Adult
Brownie recipe in "The Rolling Scone" - it is simply out of place.

What can be done with the funds collected by the B&V guilds?  They
can be donated to the SCA or another NFP, such as MADD or the ASPCA.
 Donating the funds to the SCA does not mean that you have to turn
them over to another account; the B&V guild can sponsor an issue of
the Kingdom newsletter, or the Kingdom A&S newsletter; they can
donate the prizes (of course, NOT alcoholic, or even empty
to-be-filled bottles) for a tourney or other competition; they can
buy supplies to donate to the chirurgeons or waterbearers or
whomever; and so on.  They can also use the money for non-supplies
such as books for a lending library.

If the members of the guild want to pool funds to buy consumable
supplies, they need to give the money to someone who holds it
outside of the SCA. This money will not be tax-deductible as are
donations to the SCA.  However, it can be used for whatever the
members wish to do, as long as they are not doing so under the aegis
of the SCA.  Think of the example many colleges have, with the
student group being officially separate from the SCA group.

I think this answers everything, except for the items that I noted
are still under research.  More to come as I get the information.

	           |\     THIS is the cutting edge of technology! 
	           |/ margolh at
<mailto:margolh at>
Hablutzel at <mailto:Hablutzel at> 
	                      Morgan Cain * Steppes, Ansteorra

Red meat is NOT bad for you. Now blue-green meat, THAT'S bad for

	                     May God have mercy on my enemies
	                     For they shall certainly need it.

	      For every action, there is an equal and opposite

                I intend to live forever -- so far, so good!

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