ES - casual apprentice (was: some more good news)

Jane Sitton-Logan/James D. Logan jesl at netzero.net
Thu Aug 12 16:32:28 PDT 1999


Bonjour from Madelina de Lindsaye, who thanks Viscount Sir etc. Galen for the
elevation to Lady.

I provided the information from Kingdom Law in regards to the casual use of
"apprentice" for the very reason that eyebrows, hackles, and voices have been
raised in the past.  Several years ago, when I announced at a moot (when it was
still being held at Old South, if that tells you how long ago it was) that Lord
Egbert of Hastings was apprenticing himself to Laird Loganaich, someone who
shall remain nameless later took Lord Egbert aside and berated him for my
announcement.  Naturally, this person never confronted me.  When Lord Egbert
brought the matter to my attention, he said the person was furious because Logan
is not a Laurel, and therefore could not have apprentices.  The person who was
mad was not a Laurel either, for that matter, but was angry none the less, over
a perceived slight.

Curious, I researched the issue, and discovered the paragraph which I quoted in
my previous post.  I also posed a question to the Rialto which provoked a long
and fairly heated discussion in regards to the apprentice issue.  I found it
interesting that not a single Laurel was offended by my usage of "apprentice".
I received a half dozen private replies as well, all of which were extremely
supportive, all from Laurels.  One gentleman even said that he knew personally
the difficulty involved in such a "real life" apprenticeship, and "by God", he
said, he'd be da**ed if he'd call it anything else.  The only differences
between ancient and modern usage is that the apprentices usually don't start as
children, don't pay a fee to the "master", and don't live in the smithy.

Other than that, modern apprentices do just as much scut work, burn up just as
much coal and iron (if not more) while making unsaleable goods before the
"master" can finally recoup some of his losses, and require the "master" to
spend time teaching that might otherwise be spent making money.  (Thus it takes
careful consideration in regards to a pupil's ability and potential before
agreeing to accept him as an apprentice, since it is no longer customary for the
student to pay a fee for the privilege of learning the trade.)

Curiously, the people who wrote the most singeing flames came from people who
were neither Laurels, Apprentices, nor apprentices.

Just trying to keep those embers from getting fanned again.

Amicalement,
Madelina

Paul Mitchell wrote:

> Lady Madelina wrote:
> <snip>
> >And before anyone sends me flames pointing out that Logan is not a
> >Laurel, I am not "officially" claiming anything.  All I know is that
> >I was a student when I went to school, but what Lord Erik is
> >learning at the forge goes beyond being just a student.  In any
> <snip>
>
> OK!  Ok!  Wow, it never even occurred to me to raise
> an eyebrow at "apprentice" in such a casual usage.
> Everybody who takes an interest knows that Lord Erik
> has been learning blacksmithing from Lord Logan for
> quite some time, nobody thinks Logan is claiming to
> be a laurel, and I never heard that Logan was claiming
> to teach Erik how to be a peer, nor did I ever see
> Erik wearing a green belt.
>
> So relax, no big deal.
>
> - Galen

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