[Elfsea] 'Young Ones'

Shaw, Donnel ShawD at chisd.com
Wed Oct 30 15:10:03 PST 2002

I have always sought out the Historian and been avalable to anyone who wants
to hear the history. Being quiet has never been my problem. I have and never
will have poblem with people working on History. William, I will be glad to
talk to you and anyone eles any time you all want. (Well, Except while

As to younger ones with new Ideas I will Listen and support any good idea I
hear. I love to discus new ideas.

The two traditions and fights we fought was to get recognition for the
people who do the rapiar and the Archery. I believe that they need the
respect and the recognition. So it is not the change I fight but the fight
to make sure they keep that respect and recognition. Those people deservie

I want to write more on this but it is time to go home. I will rething and
write more later.
Donnel Shaw
Pre K

-----Original Message-----
From: Wilim Penbras [mailto:wilim.penbras at pandora.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 1:43 PM
To: elfsea at ansteorra.org
Subject: Re: [Elfsea] 'Young Ones'

Okay, I'll pipe up as the "Baby" of the Group.  I've been playing in Elfsea
a few months less than Maria.  There are people that have been playing less
time and there are people that having been playing way more.

I'm going to explain a little something about buttons.  I've got just about
every e-mail going back two or more years of conversation on this list.  It
seems there are times when everyone is discussing issues in the Barony and
people start throwing out ideas.  Usually someone happens to throw out an
idea would result in something being changed that was fought for in the
wayback when.  That type of idea is consistantly shot down.  I'd expect it
to be.  People were passionate enough to do something about it back then.
It's perfectly natural for them to be passionate about it not being undone

Back to the buttons.  The reply is consistantly something VERY close to you
"If you'd been here back when we fought for it to be this way you wouldn't
be talking about changing it".  That type of statement is very charged
without it being intended.  It can be read many ways but when you hear it
over and over again in e-mails and in person it simply becomes an insult.
The first time you say it, it means one thing but it may have been the
hundredth time we active 'young ones' have heard it.  By then it means,
"Shaddup, you have no idea of the history in this barony our you wouldn't
make such stupid suggestions."

A good idea is a good idea, even if it comes from a newcomer.  A bad idea is
a bad idea even if it comes from an old-timer.  If the only thing you can
say to shoot down an idea relates to time served.  That doesn't make it a
bad idea.  Our Defender Titles are all part of one event for a reason.  It's
not just because someone fought to have them together.  Don't tell me it's a
bad idea because it goes against the goal of a fight I wasn't part of.  That
particular idea, of moving some Defender titles to other events, is a bad
idea for many reasons. We don't need to resort to what we now know is a
hotspot for people, referring to time served.

I'm new.  I'm active. I have many of the historians files in my garage
still.  I wasn't there but I've gone out of my way to learn the history of
the Barony. Still, if we 'young ones' don't know the history of the Barony
who's fault is that?  I don't want to know who's fault it is.  I'll take
those historian's files I do still have and find some way of starting to
diseminate the information and history I have available to the people of the
barony.  I hope it doesn't go against any fight that was fought back when.
I hope people might read about thier history even if it's filtered through
the eyes of a 'Young One'.

Just to sum up the point, We 'Young Ones' have been having ideas slapped
down with the same catch phrases for at least the last two and half years
I've been here.  Any friendly intent and niceness that I AM still sure is
there is getting extremely hard to see/feel.

Yours In Service,
     Ld. Wilim Penbras ap Gurgeneu
aka  Billy Fathead _______________________________________________
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