[Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: [Steppes] Fwd:[Ansteorra]YouthfulCombatants
Michael of Langley
michaeloflangley at hotmail.com
Thu Jan 13 20:39:22 PST 2005
Larissa,
I am currently a heavy fighter.
I have fought in Gulf War and two Gothic Wars.
I have 5 youth combat fighters (4 of which are active - the 7 year old likes
to play with her friends).
I have been an active fighter in a shield wall and have led several charges
as well as bridge battles, etc.
I have charged a shield wall to defend archers and crossbowman by myself to
allow them to escape (got 3 and the other 8 got me... ;) )
I am not trying to rain on anyones parade - but I feel that if the young
fighters are going to compete with the adults (after being authorized by the
K.E.Marshal):
1. A parent or legal guardian or responsible family member (who can
authorize immediate medical attention if neccessary) needs to be present IN
CASE there is a problem.
2. The youth need to be able to be identified on the melee/tournament field
- that way honorable, responsible fighters who are well trained will
recognize an up and coming fighter and will fight accordingly and know how
hard to throw their shots. This can be accomplished by helmet markings or
something VERY obvious. Personally, I would not want to be the fighter who,
being amped up and in the heat of battle, throws a blow that injures a young
fighter because they were of a smaller stature or were not fully mature yet,
even though they are authorized to fight.
3. The adults still need to be an active participant and have the FINAL
decision on whether or not their youth should participate against a certain
opponent or in a certain battle. Our youth do not always have the best
judgement and until they are legal age, it is our responsibility to look out
for their best interests whether we want to or not - the parent is the one
who is responsible for their youth.
4. Parents have the final decision battle by battle tournament by
tournament, and if neccessary, fighter by fighter.
I simply want the parents to be aware of things that can happen. I've seen
cup shots with fiberglass spears, fighters continually hit after they have
shouted (as best they could) "good!" but were not heard, and fighters hit so
hard they almost needed to be carried off the field. No parent wants to see
this happen to their child.
It has been said that all of the SCA is moving to this standard - well, what
if the entire society is wrong in this decision and in 3 months it results
in 37 youth injuries, 3 of which cause permanent paralyzation? What do we
say then, - "well, everyone else was doing that...". That won't be much
comfort to someone who will never walk again...
Be aware, be informed, be involved and make your own decisions about your
youth. If the decision is made that they can fight - its still the PARENTS
responsibility to make the FINAL decision - not the youth's, or peer
pressure or kids whining till they get there way. Be strong, be courageous
and be a parent.
"...Faith is daring the soul to believe what the eyes cannot see..."
Lord Michael of Langley
Squire to Sir Corwin von Xanten and Sir Anton Qwith
Southern Regional Youth Marshal
>On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:53:25 +0000, Trish Kvamme
><ladyoftherose at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Not to hurt anyone's feelings in any way regarding their opinion, but I
>am
> > mildly curious as to the following.
> >
> > 1. How many people who are adverse to these teens fighting ever fought
> > heavy weapons/chivarlic combat?
> >
> > 2. Of those who have, how many actually fought in a war?
> >
> > 3. And of those who disagree, how many actually have children or
>teenaged
> > children?
> >
> > 4. How many of them have fought in an acutal battle in a shield wall or
> > charge?
> >
> > Just curious.
> >
> > Larissa
> >
> > >From: Steppes Seneschal <steppes.seneschal at gmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: Steppes Seneschal <steppes.seneschal at gmail.com>,
>"Barony
> > >of Steppes - SCA, Inc." <steppes at ansteorra.org>
> > >To: "Barony of Steppes - SCA, Inc." <steppes at ansteorra.org>
> > >CC: dukepmg at aol.com, youth-combat at ansteorra.org, elfsea at ansteorra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: [Steppes] Fwd:
> > >[Ansteorra]YouthfulCombatants
> > >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:06:58 -0600
> > >
> > >I agree with you completely.
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:48:02 -0600, Michael of Langley
> > ><michaeloflangley at hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > To all concerned,
> > > >
> > > > My concern is that during a melee, such as Gulf Wars, the younger
> > >fighters
> > > > will be indistinguishable from older more seasoned fighters. At
>Gulf
> > >Wars
> > > > last year, during the spear tournament, an Ansteorran combatant had
>his
> > > > chinstrap broken and the helmet hit him in his face when he took a
>heavy
> > > > spear thrust. This was not in a grand melee, but a two against two
> > >spear
> > > > tournament. Our KING took the blow well...
> > > >
> > > > Now, lets think about a 16 year old, who is still growing, taking a
>face
> > > > shot from a fiberglass spear. Unfortunately, our Earl Marshall will
>not
> > >be
> > > > there to make sure that the fighters are going to take it easy on
>them
> > >and
> > > > not bruise them too much. The younger fighters, still maturing,
>will be
> > >at
> > > > the mercy of the opposing force - I stress the "still maturing"
>part.
> > > >
> > > > We wear pads now and have parents attend the tournaments for a two
>fold
> > > > reason, to avoid unnecessary injuries and law suits and to get the
> > >parents
> > > > more involved with their youth combatants. A lawsuit can be placed
> > >against
> > > > anyone for any reason - waiver or not (and while it may not stand up
>in
> > > > court, it must still be defended against). Is it worth it? I can
>hear
> > >it
> > > > now when the first serious injury occurs - "You said he was ready
>and
> > >that
> > > > big guy just hit him way to hard!!! Who is going to pay all these
>doctor
> > > > bills! Why didn't someone stop him! I would have stopped him if I
>was
> > >here
> > > > watching (but because I was on merchants row because I'm not
>REQUIRED to
> > >be
> > > > here - I was off shopping for my wife/husband)."
> > > >
> > > > Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, we have fighters with
> > >prejudices -
> > > > "I'm gonna smack every (girl/Saracen/crusader/guy/archer/whatever)
>as
> > >hard
> > > > as I can when I see them, because they shouldn't be on the field".
> > >After
> > > > the blow is thrown, "Oh, I'm so sorry - I didn't mean to hit you
>that
> > >hard!"
> > > > rarely makes up for it. Yes, we are always chivalrous and say "Its
>ok -
> > >no
> > > > problem - groan..." but inside, we're secretly hoping they get
>creamed
> > >on
> > > > the field and we get to see it (be honest).
> > > >
> > > > What will we say when a 16 year old is carried off with broken ribs,
>or
> > >a
> > > > ruptured spleen from too hard of a thrust? "Oh, sorry kid, that's
>life -
> > >can
> > > > we get a 'Lay on' here?"
> > > >
> > > > My SINCERE hope is that one of our youth fighters NEVER has anything
> > >like
> > > > this happen to them. This may ruffle a few feathers, but the youth
> > >fighters
> > > > are worth it. They will be 18 soon enough, after all, its only 730
> > >days...
> > > >
> > > > "...Faith is daring the soul to believe what the eyes cannot see..."
> > > >
> > > > Lord Michael of Langley
> > > > Squire to Sir Corwin von Xanten and Sir Anton Qwith
> > > > Southern Regional Youth Marshal
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Vicki Marsh" <xaraxene at comcast.net>
> > > > >Reply-To: Youth Combat in Ansteorra <youth-combat at ansteorra.org>
> > > > >To: "Barony of Elfsea" <elfsea at ansteorra.org>,
><steppes at ansteorra.org>,
> > > > > <youth-combat at ansteorra.org>
> > > > >CC: dukepmg at aol.com
> > > > >Subject: [Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: [Steppes] Fwd: [Ansteorra]
> > > > >YouthfulCombatants
> > > > >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:00:55 -0600
> > > > >
> > > > >Xene here:
> > > > >
> > > > >I was also in martial arts at the age of 16. Of course, this was a
>long
> > > > >time
> > > > >ago, in the 1970's, but we fought without pads. My parents didn't
>have
> > >to
> > > > >stay around to watch, even at the tournaments. In practice, I
>sparred
> > > > >adults, but only the ones that the instructor knew had the ability
>to
> > >spar
> > > > >with me without hurting me badly. I would get bruises, but nothing
> > >major.
> > > > >The only injury I got was at a tournament from another student that
>was
> > >in
> > > > >my division. I got smacked in the nose pretty good and it taught me
>to
> > >keep
> > > > >my guard up. Did my father sue anyone? No. It was my fault for
> > >dropping my
> > > > >guard:)
> > > > >As I improved in fighting, the intensity and speed was kicked up a
> > >notch,
> > > > >because the instructor knew I could handle it.
> > > > >
> > > > >16 and 17 year olds vary in size and maturity. Some of them are
>adult
> > > > >sized,
> > > > >some are not. Some have good judgement and some don't. They can
> > >legally
> > > > >drive on the streets, once they get get their training and license,
>but
> > > > >they
> > > > >don't get to jump in all at once. It requires in-classroom
>training,
> > > > >behind-the-wheel training, 6 months with an instructional permit
>(and
> > > > >driving with someone 21 yrs or older in the car). They then have
> > >another 6
> > > > >months with a provisional license. See
> > > >
> > >
> >www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/graduateddrive
> > > > >r.htm
> > > > >Oklahoma also has the GDL (graduated Driver's license) See:
> > > > >http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/gdl.htm
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >I figure if the procedure of increasing responsibility and risk is
>good
> > > > >enough for the States of Texas and Oklahoma, it's good enough for
> > > > >Ansteorra.
> > > > >
> > > > >Under the new proposed rules, as I understand it, *I* can decide
> > >whether or
> > > > >not my son is ready or not. Then, the Kingdom Earl Marshal will
>provide
> > >an
> > > > >impartial decision as to whether or not my son is fit and mature
>enough
> > >to
> > > > >fight with adults.
> > > > >That is reasonable.
> > > > >
> > > > >My only concern is that if we have a EM who doesn't travel enough,
>or
> > > > >parents who aren't able to travel to the EM, they won't be able to
>have
> > >the
> > > > >requisite approval. Unfortunately, we have had kingdom officers who
> > > > >virtually fell off the face of the earth during their tenure. If
>the
> > >power
> > > > >of final approval only rests in one person's hands, it can become a
> > > > >bottleneck, or a political issue.
> > > > >
> > > > >Baroness Xene Theriane, OL, OP
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >-
> > > > >
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >Youth-combat mailing list
> > > > >Youth-combat at ansteorra.org
> > > > >http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/youth-combat
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Steppes mailing list
> > > > Steppes at ansteorra.org
> > > > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/steppes
> > > >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >Steppes mailing list
> > >Steppes at ansteorra.org
> > >http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/steppes
> >
> >
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