[Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: [Steppes]Fwd:[Ansteorra]YouthfulCombatants

Trish Kvamme ladyoftherose at hotmail.com
Fri Jan 14 08:51:08 PST 2005


Lord Michael pretty much everything you said in your letter regarding the 
kids participation is how the youth fighting Llaw says as written into 
Kingdom law <from what I understand>, and as a parent I wouldnt stand for 
anything less.

Nicely said :)

Larissa

PS this reply all thing is a major pain in the butt.

>From: "Michael of Langley" <michaeloflangley at hotmail.com>
>To: steppes.seneschal at gmail.com
>CC: elfsea at ansteorra.org, dukepmg at aol.com, steppes at ansteorra.org,        
>youth-combat at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: 
>[Steppes]Fwd:[Ansteorra]YouthfulCombatants
>Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:39:22 -0600
>
>Larissa,
>
>I am currently a heavy fighter.
>I have fought in Gulf War and two Gothic Wars.
>I have 5 youth combat fighters (4 of which are active - the 7 year old 
>likes to play with her friends).
>I have been an active fighter in a shield wall and have led several charges 
>as well as bridge battles, etc.
>I have charged a shield wall to defend archers and crossbowman by myself to 
>allow them to escape (got 3 and the other 8 got me... ;) )
>
>I am not trying to rain on anyones parade - but I feel that if the young 
>fighters are going to compete with the adults (after being authorized by 
>the K.E.Marshal):
>
>1. A parent or legal guardian or responsible family member (who can 
>authorize immediate medical attention if neccessary) needs to be present IN 
>CASE there is a problem.
>
>2. The youth need to be able to be identified on the melee/tournament field 
>- that way honorable, responsible fighters who are well trained will 
>recognize an up and coming fighter and will fight accordingly and know how 
>hard to throw their shots. This can be accomplished by helmet markings or 
>something VERY obvious.  Personally, I would not want to be the fighter 
>who, being amped up and in the heat of battle, throws a blow that injures a 
>young fighter because they were of a smaller stature or were not fully 
>mature yet, even though they are authorized to fight.
>
>3. The adults still need to be an active participant and have the FINAL 
>decision on whether or not their youth should participate against a certain 
>opponent or in a certain battle.  Our youth do not always have the best 
>judgement and until they are legal age, it is our responsibility to look 
>out for their best interests whether we want to or not - the parent is the 
>one who is responsible for their youth.
>
>4. Parents have the final decision battle by battle tournament by 
>tournament, and if neccessary, fighter by fighter.
>
>
>I simply want the parents to be aware of things that can happen. I've seen 
>cup shots with fiberglass spears, fighters continually hit after they have 
>shouted (as best they could) "good!" but were not heard, and fighters hit 
>so hard they almost needed to be carried off the field.  No parent wants to 
>see this happen to their child.
>
>It has been said that all of the SCA is moving to this standard - well, 
>what if the entire society is wrong in this decision and in 3 months it 
>results in 37 youth injuries, 3 of which cause permanent paralyzation?  
>What do we say then,  - "well, everyone else was doing that...". That won't 
>be much comfort to someone who will never walk again...
>
>Be aware, be informed, be involved and make your own decisions about your 
>youth.  If the decision is made that they can fight - its still the PARENTS 
>responsibility to make the FINAL decision - not the youth's, or peer 
>pressure or kids whining till they get there way. Be strong, be courageous 
>and be a parent.
>
>
>"...Faith is daring the soul to believe what the eyes cannot see..."
>
>Lord Michael of Langley
>Squire to Sir Corwin von Xanten and Sir Anton Qwith
>Southern Regional Youth Marshal
>
>
>
>>On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 16:53:25 +0000, Trish Kvamme
>><ladyoftherose at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Not to hurt anyone's feelings in any way regarding their opinion, but I 
>>am
>> > mildly curious as to the following.
>> >
>> > 1.  How many people who are adverse to these teens fighting ever fought
>> > heavy weapons/chivarlic combat?
>> >
>> > 2.  Of those who have, how many actually fought in a war?
>> >
>> > 3.  And of those who disagree, how many actually have children or 
>>teenaged
>> > children?
>> >
>> > 4.  How many of them have fought in an acutal battle in a shield wall 
>>or
>> > charge?
>> >
>> > Just curious.
>> >
>> > Larissa
>> >
>> > >From: Steppes Seneschal <steppes.seneschal at gmail.com>
>> > >Reply-To: Steppes Seneschal <steppes.seneschal at gmail.com>,        
>>"Barony
>> > >of Steppes - SCA, Inc." <steppes at ansteorra.org>
>> > >To: "Barony of Steppes - SCA, Inc." <steppes at ansteorra.org>
>> > >CC: dukepmg at aol.com, youth-combat at ansteorra.org, elfsea at ansteorra.org
>> > >Subject: Re: [Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: [Steppes] Fwd:
>> > >[Ansteorra]YouthfulCombatants
>> > >Date: Wed, 12 Jan 2005 01:06:58 -0600
>> > >
>> > >I agree with you completely.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 21:48:02 -0600, Michael of Langley
>> > ><michaeloflangley at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > > > To all concerned,
>> > > >
>> > > > My concern is that during a melee, such as Gulf Wars, the younger
>> > >fighters
>> > > > will be indistinguishable from older more seasoned fighters.  At 
>>Gulf
>> > >Wars
>> > > > last year, during the spear tournament, an Ansteorran combatant had 
>>his
>> > > > chinstrap broken and the helmet hit him in his face when he took a 
>>heavy
>> > > > spear thrust.  This was not in a grand melee, but a two against two
>> > >spear
>> > > > tournament.  Our KING took the blow well...
>> > > >
>> > > > Now, lets think about a 16 year old, who is still growing, taking a 
>>face
>> > > > shot from a fiberglass spear.  Unfortunately, our Earl Marshall 
>>will not
>> > >be
>> > > > there to make sure that the fighters are going to take it easy on 
>>them
>> > >and
>> > > > not bruise them too much.  The younger fighters, still maturing, 
>>will be
>> > >at
>> > > > the mercy of the opposing force - I stress the "still maturing" 
>>part.
>> > > >
>> > > > We wear pads now and have parents attend the tournaments for a two 
>>fold
>> > > > reason, to avoid unnecessary injuries and law suits and to get the
>> > >parents
>> > > > more involved with their youth combatants.  A lawsuit can be placed
>> > >against
>> > > > anyone for any reason - waiver or not (and while it may not stand 
>>up in
>> > > > court, it must still be defended against).  Is it worth it? I can 
>>hear
>> > >it
>> > > > now when the first serious injury occurs - "You said he was ready 
>>and
>> > >that
>> > > > big guy just hit him way to hard!!! Who is going to pay all these 
>>doctor
>> > > > bills! Why didn't someone stop him! I would have stopped him if I 
>>was
>> > >here
>> > > > watching (but because I was on merchants row because I'm not 
>>REQUIRED to
>> > >be
>> > > > here - I was off shopping for my wife/husband)."
>> > > >
>> > > > Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, we have fighters with
>> > >prejudices -
>> > > > "I'm gonna smack every (girl/Saracen/crusader/guy/archer/whatever) 
>>as
>> > >hard
>> > > > as I can when I see them, because they shouldn't be on the field".
>> > >After
>> > > > the blow is thrown, "Oh, I'm so sorry - I didn't mean to hit you 
>>that
>> > >hard!"
>> > > > rarely makes up for it.  Yes, we are always chivalrous and say "Its 
>>ok -
>> > >no
>> > > > problem - groan..." but inside, we're secretly hoping they get 
>>creamed
>> > >on
>> > > > the field and we get to see it (be honest).
>> > > >
>> > > > What will we say when a 16 year old is carried off with broken 
>>ribs, or
>> > >a
>> > > > ruptured spleen from too hard of a thrust? "Oh, sorry kid, that's 
>>life -
>> > >can
>> > > > we get a 'Lay on' here?"
>> > > >
>> > > > My SINCERE hope is that one of our youth fighters NEVER has 
>>anything
>> > >like
>> > > > this happen to them.  This may ruffle a few feathers, but the youth
>> > >fighters
>> > > > are worth it.  They will be 18 soon enough, after all, its only 730
>> > >days...
>> > > >
>> > > > "...Faith is daring the soul to believe what the eyes cannot 
>>see..."
>> > > >
>> > > > Lord Michael of Langley
>> > > > Squire to Sir Corwin von Xanten and Sir Anton Qwith
>> > > > Southern Regional Youth Marshal
>> > > >
>> > > > >From: "Vicki Marsh" <xaraxene at comcast.net>
>> > > > >Reply-To: Youth Combat in Ansteorra <youth-combat at ansteorra.org>
>> > > > >To: "Barony of Elfsea" <elfsea at ansteorra.org>, 
>><steppes at ansteorra.org>,
>> > > > >    <youth-combat at ansteorra.org>
>> > > > >CC: dukepmg at aol.com
>> > > > >Subject: [Youth-combat] RE: [Elfsea] RE: [Steppes] Fwd: 
>>[Ansteorra]
>> > > > >YouthfulCombatants
>> > > > >Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 18:00:55 -0600
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Xene here:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I was also in martial arts at the age of 16. Of course, this was a 
>>long
>> > > > >time
>> > > > >ago, in the 1970's, but we fought without pads.  My parents didn't 
>>have
>> > >to
>> > > > >stay around to watch, even at the tournaments.  In practice, I 
>>sparred
>> > > > >adults, but only the ones that the instructor knew had the ability 
>>to
>> > >spar
>> > > > >with me without hurting me badly. I would get bruises, but nothing
>> > >major.
>> > > > >The only injury I got was at a tournament from another student 
>>that was
>> > >in
>> > > > >my division. I got smacked in the nose pretty good and it taught 
>>me to
>> > >keep
>> > > > >my guard up. Did my father sue anyone?  No. It was my fault for
>> > >dropping my
>> > > > >guard:)
>> > > > >As I improved in fighting, the intensity and speed was kicked up a
>> > >notch,
>> > > > >because the instructor knew I could handle it.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >16 and 17 year olds vary in size and maturity. Some of them are 
>>adult
>> > > > >sized,
>> > > > >some are not. Some have good judgement and some don't.  They can
>> > >legally
>> > > > >drive on the streets, once they get get their training and 
>>license, but
>> > > > >they
>> > > > >don't get to jump in all at once. It requires in-classroom 
>>training,
>> > > > >behind-the-wheel training, 6 months with an instructional permit 
>>(and
>> > > > >driving with someone 21 yrs or older in the car).  They then have
>> > >another 6
>> > > > >months with a provisional license. See
>> > > >
>> > > 
>> >www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/driver_licensing_control/graduateddrive
>> > > > >r.htm
>> > > > >Oklahoma also has the GDL (graduated Driver's license) See:
>> > > > >http://www.dps.state.ok.us/dls/gdl.htm
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >I figure if the procedure of increasing responsibility and risk is 
>>good
>> > > > >enough for the States of Texas and Oklahoma, it's good enough for
>> > > > >Ansteorra.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Under the new proposed rules, as I understand it, *I* can decide
>> > >whether or
>> > > > >not my son is ready or not. Then, the Kingdom Earl Marshal will 
>>provide
>> > >an
>> > > > >impartial decision as to whether or not my son is fit and mature 
>>enough
>> > >to
>> > > > >fight with adults.
>> > > > >That is reasonable.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >My only concern is that if we have a EM who doesn't travel enough, 
>>or
>> > > > >parents who aren't able to travel to the EM, they won't be able to 
>>have
>> > >the
>> > > > >requisite approval. Unfortunately, we have had kingdom officers 
>>who
>> > > > >virtually fell off the face of the earth during their tenure. If 
>>the
>> > >power
>> > > > >of final approval only rests in one person's hands, it can become 
>>a
>> > > > >bottleneck, or a political issue.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >Baroness Xene Theriane, OL, OP
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >-
>> > > > >
>> > > > >_______________________________________________
>> > > > >Youth-combat mailing list
>> > > > >Youth-combat at ansteorra.org
>> > > > >http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/youth-combat
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Steppes mailing list
>> > > > Steppes at ansteorra.org
>> > > > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/steppes
>> > > >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >Steppes mailing list
>> > >Steppes at ansteorra.org
>> > >http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/steppes
>> >
>> >
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>
>
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