I am just pointing out the difference between forms of address and titles, as they really are two different things. Another example lets use an extreme, His Majestry Aaron, King of Ansteorra. His title is King, while the form of addess is "Your Majesty". If you were to approuch him and call him King Aaron, it would just sound really odd, since "King" is his title not a form of address. Calling him "Sir", since he is a knight too, is very inappropriate as until the end of the reign he IS the King. Lets take another example more in line with the rapier list example you gave, Duke Miguel de Oporto. The proper form of address is "Your Grace", his title of use is his choice on the field, should you wish to address him and give him a warning what it is about : Rapier - you could use Don, chivalric: you could use Sir, or general courtliness: Duke, when conjoined all thre would be as follows:
<br>Your Grace Don Miguel<br>Your Grace Sir Miguel<br>Your Grace Duke Miguel<br>and always appropriate<br>Your Grace Miguel, since titles are not necessary when addressing someone anyway.<br><br>Likewise forms of address are not necessary when referring to an individual to a 3rd party, rather in that instance you should use the greatest title. example: Duke Miguel is an accomplished fighter on any field.
<br><br>Tomas<br><br>ps Donnel, I am not as new as you may think I am, I lived in 2 kingdoms before calling Ansteorra my home. I also started in AS 19, then took a long break. Of course I believe courtesy is ageless.<br>
<br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 11/24/06, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a href="mailto:DonnelShaw@aol.com">DonnelShaw@aol.com</a></b> <<a href="mailto:DonnelShaw@aol.com">DonnelShaw@aol.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;">
<div>
<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="7" cellspacing="0" height="100%" width="100%">
<tbody>
<tr height="100%">
<td width="100%">
<div style="font-size: 10pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Arial;">
<div>
<div>I believe that what you are both saying is correct but the change of
titles depending on the subject is a subtle ways to help the that person
switch gears to the appropriate frame of mind for the subject being
discussed. I know around the list fields I am more likely to call him Don
Robin and in court I would be more likely to call him your excellency. But
then Baron Crandell and I have been around for a long time and we do
thinks in old fashion ways at times. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>HL Donnel</div><div><span class="e" id="q_10f1afa5e2a56133_1">
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>In a message dated 11/24/2006 8:42:43 A.M. Central Standard Time,
<a href="mailto:siortomas@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">siortomas@gmail.com</a> writes:</div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid blue; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">Ah
Your excellency Crandell, <br>You are correct in spirit but you are
mixing titles with forms of address. If you walk up to Robin of
Gilwell, and want to speak to him on a matter concerning Rapier then you
address him the same, " Your Excellency, may I speak with you" or if you
want to give him an idea what you actually want to talk to him about
then" Your excellency Don Robin, may I have a word with you
about..." The form of address is "Your Excellency", just as it is
for you. Now anyone who actually has multiple titles or even
multiple levels of Rank (peerages and nobility) is not very likely to
correct you if you address them in the less than most correct
manner. After all to have them they have been around for a while
and understand the intent. It is just, as heralds, we should
strive to educate those who don't know in the most correct manner. Of
course when someone new asks me at an event what to call the people with
coronets on their head, I tell them that "Your Excellency" will be right
most of the time and then teach them how to identify the Prince&
Princess if we have them and the Crowns. That is, of course, for
the expedience of the event for the day, and I tell them that I can show
them later, when they are more comfortable being around how do identify
all of the different types of coronets. No need for information overload
at their first event. Yes I know that Duchy's are entitled to
"Your grace" but they still have County's and they understand if Joe
Newguy is calling them "Your excellency". I remain <br><br>ever in
service<br><br>Sior Tomas<br><br>ps... adamantly trying to stuff the
protocol herald back in his box<br><br>pps. Your Excellency
Ameline, make it an apple cider and I will be very happy. (Woodchuck
dark and dry) <br><br><br>
</font><div><span class="gmail_quote"><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">On 11/23/06, <b class="gmail_sendername"><a title="mailto:pcrandal@sbcglobal.net" href="mailto:pcrandal@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
pcrandal@sbcglobal.net</a></b>
<<a title="mailto:pcrandal@sbcglobal.net" href="mailto:pcrandal@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">pcrandal@sbcglobal.net </a>>
wrote:</font></span><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">
</font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><font style="background-color: transparent;" color="#000000" face="Arial" size="2">
You
may also consider why you are addressing the<br>person. I will use
Robin of Gilwell as example. <br><br>If I am speaking to him regarding
a rapier<br>subject then I would use Don Robin.<br>A bardic question
would be to Master Robin, and<br>Baron Robin would be proper for
general<br>conversation.<br><br>Crandall, Olde Phoole
<br></font></blockquote></div></blockquote></span></div></div>
<div></div>
<div> </div></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>Elfsea mailing list<br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:Elfsea@lists.ansteorra.org">Elfsea@lists.ansteorra.org</a><br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/elfsea-ansteorra.org" target="_blank">
http://lists.ansteorra.org/listinfo.cgi/elfsea-ansteorra.org</a><br><br></blockquote></div><br>