[Glaslyn] Re: [Steppes] Directions for war practice

Mordock von Rugen mordockvonrugen at hotmail.com
Wed Oct 17 13:47:08 PDT 2001

I have to admit that this is not just irritating.  It is infuriating.

City parks are available for people to use for any legal activity.  Any
activity that is within our rights to perform in a public place we can
perform at a park.

Some activities are only legal in approved places - like normal archery,
which can only be done at a range, on private property (where you are liable
for protecting those off the property), or on certain public grounds while
hunting with a permit in season.  Or like drinking, which is limited to
establishments with liquor licenses and private property.

Combat archery, baseball, model rocketry - these are all activities that are
not proscribed in any way.  They do not require a permit, and they are not
limited to certain places.

When you ask a parks official for permission, you are asking for an
endorsement for your activity.  That is why they balk - they have to make
sure that they are not endorsing an activity that is proscribed.  And most
of them have no idea how to do that.  So they say, "No, wait until I can
make sure it's okay," and hope you just go away.  They are not in the
business of endorsing or proscribing activities.  They are not law
enforcement.  Endorsing activities on the facilities they maintain is not in
their job description.  Do you ask you mailman to endorse your choice of
lawn-edging technique?

The same thing would happen if you asked for permission to play rugby, or
practice heavy fighting, or model rocketry.  An endorsement makes them
liable, while you just going out and doing it does not.  Without an
endorsement, only you are liable for anything you do.  With an endorsement,
the parks folks become liable for your activity.

But, I despair.  Logic and common sense seem to be in very short supply,
while "CYA" and "PC" are all the vogue.  I have to admit to a suspicion that
this "getting permission" is actually *aimed* at transferring liability to
the parks people.  If that *is* the case, I will be pretty disgusted, as
well as infuriated.

Yes, you will guarantee that you don't upset the parks people if you ask for
permission first.  And you will guarantee that you *will* upset a good
portion of the fighting community of this barony if you put a stop to a
legal activity just because you don't want to take any chance at all of
upsetting the parks people, who might stop us from doing the activity you
aren't letting us do, anyway.

I will say this: if combat archery is denied at Mary Head Park because
you're trying to be overly nice, the Fray will find another place to

Who is more important to you - fellow SCA folks who want to practice war
fighting, or unknown parks officials whose actions if upset would amount to
nothing more than telling us to stop doing the objectionable activity?


Mordock von Rügen
Commander, Ansteorra Central Region
Commander, Iron Star Brigade

>From: ironwyrm at juno.com
>To: steppes at ansteorra.org
>CC: mordockvonrugen at HOTMAIL.COM, rbnew at ftw.nrcs.usda.gov,
>LordFearghus at home.com, WDuke at aegonusa.com, lindenwood at ansteorra.org,
>glaslyn at ansteorra.org, lochruadh at ansteorra.org, elfsea at ansteorra.org
>Subject: Re: [Steppes] Directions for war practice
>Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:37:55 -0500
>I am glad you are going ahead and giving directions to Mary Head park.
>Trying to obtain permission to use Eastfield's grounds has become a new
>lesson in dealing with (as you said)
>bureaucrats.  It won't be happening anytime soon!  I must agree, no
>matter how well you present the proposal, asking permission to allow a
>group people to whack each other with sticks and missiles while using
>property the bureaucrat is in charge of does send the conversation south
>very fast and recovery is next to impossible.
>I am still concerned about the combat archery at this practice.  After
>weeks of being led in circles, your and Morgan's point of view on the
>subject is more compelling than ever, but also still very provocative,
>the only time I have ever given good Lord Fearghus cause to go pale &
>nearly slide out of his chair (at least over rule bending) was due to
>using a field for combat archery that had not been previously approved by
>the so called bureaucrat in charge.  I wouldn't wish to put him through
>that again.  So I do not feel comfortable with the "Let's do it until
>someone complains, if they don't say anything, great!" type of practice.
>However I will forward this e-mail on to the Central Regional & Kingdom
>Archery Marshals requesting their infinite wisdom on this matter and will
>abide by their instructions.  But I belive I already know the answer, I
>will post to these lists as soon as they have responded.  Let's hope I'm
>pleasantly surprised!
>Marshal of Archers Barony of the Steppes
>On Tue, 16 Oct 2001 13:10:11 -0500 "Mordock von Rugen"
><mordockvonrugen at hotmail.com> writes:
> >
> > Directions to Mary Head park in Carrollton:
> >
> > The park is just north of Keller Springs road on Kelly.
> >
> > From Ft Worth, take I-30 or I-20 to I-35 north.  In Carrollton, take
> > the
> > Whitlock Rd exit, and turn right.  This road becomes Keller Springs.
> >  After
> > passing Josey, turn left (north).  The park is about a mile, on the
> > right.
> >
> > From Dallas or Plano, make your favorite way to Keller Springs
> > heading west.
> >   After passing Heads Ln and Via Del Norte Circle, turn right
> > (north) on
> > Kelly Blvd.  The park is about a mile, on the right.
> >
> > From elsewhere, go to www.mapsquest.com, and get a map for the
> > intersection
> > of Kelly Blvd and Keller Springs Rd in Carrollton.
> >
> > Practice starts at 2:00.  There are real bathrooms and drinking
> > fountains,
> > but I suggest bringing water as well.  There is an enclosed
> > playground for
> > kids.  The biggest part of the park is large enough to do combat
> > archery in,
> > but we will need enough marshals to clear the "downfall" area for
> > arrows so
> > we don't accidentally reach out and touch spectators.
> >
> > The parking lot is pretty small, but there is lots of parking on the
> > street.
> >
> > Dux
> >
> > Mordock von Rügen
> > Commander, Ansteorra Central Region
> > Commander, Iron Star Brigade
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "neil starkey" <raimonddemora at hotmail.com>
> > >Reply-To: elfsea at ansteorra.org
> > >To: elfsea at ansteorra.org
> > >Subject: [Elfsea] Sunday Practice 10/21
> > >Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 10:08:59 +0000
> > >
> > >Greetings Elfsea,
> > >
> > >A couple quick reminders.  Tuesday Practice at Thier Excellencies,
> > Galen
> > >and
> > >Allessandra, 7:30pm.  Thursday Practice at Randal Mill Park,
> > 7:30pm.
> > >
> > >Sunday Practice is a joint practice with Steppes and is also a
> > Brigade
> > >Practice.  Don Llwelyn will be in charge of this practice.  The
> > location is
> > >a park located in Carrollton I believe.  I also believe it starts
> > at
> > >2:00pm.
> > >  If any can respond to this message with directions, that would be
> > very
> > >helpful.  Also, if you know of others who are not on the Elfsea
> > List who be
> > >interested in joining the fun, please pass the word.  Again Sunday
> > Practice
> > >will be hosted by Steppes in Carrollton.  If you have any
> > questions, you
> > >but
> > >have to ask and an answer will appear.
> > >
> > >Raimond
> > >Elfsea Knight Marshal
> > >
> > >
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> >
> >
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> > Steppes at ansteorra.org
> > http://www.ansteorra.org/mailman/listinfo/steppes

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