[Hellsgate] "My lord", "my lady"

[HerrDetlef]

I look at it this way:

"My lord" and "my lady" are forms of address. Anybody in the SCA--from
King/Queen to newcomer--can be addressed as "my lord" or "my lady." It is
period--barely. There are several instances of its usage in Shakespeare's *
Hamlet*, for one. Addressing people as "my lord" and "my lady" removes the
sticky situation of calling someone "sir" who is not a KSCA....

But "my lord" and "my lady" are NOT titles. Titles come from the Crown. "My
lord" and "my lady," as forms of address, do not come from the Crown, and
they should not be used as if they do.

A few years ago, I created a protocol sheet that lists styles, titles, and
forms of address for the various ranks we recognize in the SCA (some of
those specific to Ansteorra). I do not list a style for non-armigers, and
the only title I list is the person's full name. The form of address can be
either the person's given name or the "my lord/my lady" bit. But not both.
Using "my lord" or "my lady" with a person's name suggests that they are
titles, when they are not. Titles are earned. And while some forms of
address are earned (the ones that are associated with titles), the form "my
lord/my lady" is not earned. It's freely given to anybody who plays, as all
are assumed to be at least untitled aristocracy.

Alexander Ravenscroft in Meridies gave me some interesting insight into the
issue. His suggestion is to eschew the "my lord/my lady" form of address
altogether in favor of "good gentle." That would remove the temptation to
treat "my lord/my lady" as the titles that they are not.

I could say this a million different ways, but since I am sure you are
already asleep by now, I will sit back down.

Yours in these Current Middle Ages,
Detlef von Marburg

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Tim McDaniel <tmcd at panix.com> wrote:

> If I may intrude with a bit on titles?
>
> As a Star Principal Herald noted years ago, "How do you refer to
> people without awards of arms?  By their names."  "Milord" and
> "milady" [1] were not titles in period.  So it's not really correct to
> word it like "Dear, would you go get my mug back from m'lord
> Billy-Bob?"  He's just "Billy-Bob".
>
> "Milady" and "milord" [1] CAN properly be used in direct address if
> you don't know their rank, or if you know there's no armigerous award.
> So if you're talking TO Billy-Bob yourself, it's fine to ask "M'lord,
> may I have my mug back?"
>
> One of the ways in which the SCA is an improvement on period is that
> we do NOT generally have the insanely proud insistence on recognition
> of rank, title, and precedence that they had in period.  More: in my
> experience, the higher-ranking the SCA person, the less they care.
> So don't worry about messing up titles for people with rank.
> For example, if you mladied our lovely Baroness Myfanwy, or mlorded
> Master Tivar or Duke Kein, I would be surprised were they to even
> mention it and utterly astonished were they to take offense.
>
> In short: don't sweat titles, but I'd like to ask that people not use
> "milady" and "milord" as if they were titles.
>
> Daniel de Lincoln (Just plain Daniel is fine by me.  Lord Daniel is
> OK: I have an AoA.)
>
> [1] In all of its variants: "milord", "milady", "m'lady", "m'lord",
> "my lady", "my lord", et cetera.
>
> --
> Tim McDaniel, tmcd at panix.com
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>



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